Re: U.S. Tries to Make It Easier to Wiretap the Internet



On Sep 28, 6:00 pm, unruh <un...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2010-09-28, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Sep 28, 3:22?pm, Mok-Kong Shen <mok-kong.s...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

[snip]

Yes, these are legal/ethical reasons, but what I find most ridiculous
is the technical implications, which simply do not make sense.

....
Also, with hybrid  (asymmetric/symmetric), end-to-end cryptosystem, if
UK court says, "provide the key", the only one who could provide the
private key would be an end party, as you know. Intermediaries (ISP's,
etc.) would not be helpful. So a person would have to self-incriminate
to make the system breakable. Not only that, for a secure voice

So what? The UK does not have the same standards of self incrimination
anyway, and even under the US Fifth, the status of an encryption key is
unclear. Producing the key does not in and of itself incriminate you.
The contents of the message may, but the courts can force you to produce
something whose contents could incriminate you. ( Where is that ledger
which lists all of your crimes that you stupidly wrote. The fifth will
not help you not to be required to produce that ledger. )

....

Note that recently and even long ago, 90's, I worked with derived keys
based on perhaps several words that would be used in some key
generation process. One advantage is that the phrase or sentence
could be in a form of self-incriminating content, or not be. To force
such contents to be revealed would be unconstitutional. We had a long
discussion to the end that a note from the Supreme Court passed that
they "saw the light" and keys were therefore protected. Please
revisit the my logic here as this absolutely kills the pretense of
courts having such access inquiry rights.
.



Relevant Pages

  • Re: Ever heard of the Senior Courts Act?
    ... Court ruling. ... would incriminate them, but a law passed to tackle video piracy in the 1980s ... The Senior Courts Act of 1981 says that the privilege against self incrimination ... where you get the idea the article is talking about civil cases. ...
    (uk.legal)
  • Re: U.S. Tries to Make It Easier to Wiretap the Internet
    ... UK court says, "provide the key", the only one who could provide the ... Intermediaries (ISP's, ... Producing the key does not in and of itself incriminate you. ... not help you not to be required to produce that ledger. ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Prosecutor cannot compel disclosure of encryption keys?
    ... No US court can't legally give such an order. ... incriminate someone else but they can't given you an order to incriminate ... Hair, blood and DNA samples are physical evidence, collectable with a ... search warrant describing the places to be searched and the things to be siezed ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: TV licence
    ... answer questions in Court "on the grounds that it may incriminate ... Even thought the Fifth Amendment has its ... origins in English Common Law, dating back to the Magna Carta, AFAIK, ... You have a right not to incriminate yourself, ...
    (uk.radio.amateur)