Re: Digital Media Equipment Self-Encryption (DMESE)

On May 30, 1:22 pm, "chumley" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<jst...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On May 28, 6:42 pm, "mushnik" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<jst...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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Talk of "managed copy" for DVD's in the news has me talking about an
idea I had back in January for stopping casual copying which is simply
having the equipment encrypt its copies to itself. That is, when you
make a backup copy, say of a DVD, your copy is encrypted by your
machine so no other can read it would a key, which can be passed by a
flash drive so you can use your backup copy with all your own
equipment.

It might also be passed over your network.

To make this idea a complete end to end solution, say, when you buy a
copyable DVD, it might come with a flash drive that would allow you to
use one device to copy it, as it would read the key from the flash
drive which would then be wiped, which would prevent you from just
passing the original bought DVD as a master for others to make copies.

Regardless of various implementations as you could different things to
get various protection schemes as this idea is very flexible, the one
key thing is self-encryption by your digital media as it would encrypt
copies it made to itself.

So all copies would be encrypted with keys that could vary potentially
with every single copy.

The biggest issue for the various industries from the movie to the
music industries getting this idea going would be the need for
manufacturers of the primary devices like DVD and CD drives to make
their drives smarter to implement it, and maybe have them take flash
drives to pass the keys.

Having a hardware solution makes it that much harder for criminal
copyright violation as people would need bootleg non-industry standard
DVD drives to not use DMESE, which themselves could be made illegal as
their primary purpose would be for illegal activity.

I talk more about this idea on my blogs, here's a link to one:

http://lostincomment.blogspot.com/2007/05/what-is-managed-copy.html

I have given the idea away open source.

It is not your idea, it was in use back in the 80's, called a dongle.

Not exactly. The end user's own device does all the work creating an
encrypted backup.

that's what a dongle does, it is a HW key and has to be plugged into the
right PC to work, and allow the PC to encrypt.

That's not this idea then at all. With this idea your pc
automatically encrypts its copies.

So when you make a copy, say, of a DVD of a favorite movie, you
computer dutifully makes the copy, but it's encrypted!

It's not encrypted to YOUR pc though, so it reads the copy without
trouble, and to you the end user, there is no visibility at this point
of the DMESE system.

So what's the point?

Well, the copy is readable by your pc, but hand it off to a friend?

And they can't read it--without a key.

So people find it difficult to pass illegal copies to friends, while
they have little to no change with their existing network, especially
if the keys can be passed along the network--except now they can
legally make backup copies.

If you can pass the key on a network it can be passed outside.


Yup. So you can pass the copy to a friend--with the key--so is that a
big break in the system?

Nope. So your friend can do a two step process to view that copy of
your favorite movie, which involves getting both a copy AND the key,
just to see it.

And your copy includes identifying information about YOU.



It IS like a dongle if the original bought DVD requires a key to be
copied, but that is just a solution that closes the loop, and isn't
necessarily an implementation that would be chosen.

Dongle is a unique code and key.


Well, here the code is unique TO THE COPY, so every time you make a
copy with your pc, it generates a new code, so you need to pass a new
key to your friends.

So every time you want to give away a copy, your friend needs not just
the copy of the DVD, but also a key, and they cannot create a copy of
the DVD even with the key, without of course using measures known to
hackers.

But for your normal user, they are done at that point, and again, the
copy has identifying information about you, so for normal users
knowing that the copy in and of itself can be used in a criminal
prosecution could bring a gut-check.



The heart of this idea is that YOUR pc encrypts copies you make,
making them almost unusable by anyone else without extra work AND your
pc includes details on its own copies allowing traceback to the
copier.

Dongle does that.

Are you sure? Then it allows end users to make copies without any
change to how they do things for just backups on, say, they're pc,
where there is NO CHANGE for them, and no visibility of the system?

When they want to use their backup copy on their own network then it
must allow them to pass the key so that again there is NO CHANGE and
no visibility to them on their own system.

Then it must also allow them to pass outside to others with a key
passed by flash drive so that they can use their copies elsewhere--or
pass them to friends but with the knowledge that the encrypted copy
can't be further copied and if it gets to the police it can be
evidence against them in a criminal prosecution.

The great thing about this idea is it allows you to backup your copies
without worrying about any change at all, or any hassle.

If dongle does all that then it's a great idea and should be
implemented, but I think you want to use "dongle" because you see it
as an old and discredited idea, so you are grasping in order to try
and make this idea look less appealing.

Tactic there might work. It IS in many ways and places, a dumb
world. I think a lot of people are not very bright, even when they're
losing billions to illegal copying.


James Harris

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Digital Media Equipment Self-Encryption (DMESE)
    ... having the equipment encrypt its copies to itself. ... copyable DVD, it might come with a flash drive that would allow you to ... their drives smarter to implement it, and maybe have them take flash ... DVDs coming with flash drives. ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Digital Media Equipment Self-Encryption (DMESE)
    ... having the equipment encrypt its copies to itself. ... copyable DVD, it might come with a flash drive that would allow you to ... their drives smarter to implement it, and maybe have them take flash ... Casual copying and handing off to friends by the average user would be ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Digital Media Equipment Self-Encryption (DMESE)
    ... having the equipment encrypt its copies to itself. ... copyable DVD, it might come with a flash drive that would allow you to ... their drives smarter to implement it, and maybe have them take flash ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Encrypted vs file permissions etc.
    ... Do you have a "backup" of the original profile (Documents & ... When I click Properties for any of the> encrypted files, then Advanced, and clear the check mark on Encrypt Files,> Apply, I get the error message in a dialog box: ... > -- How can I get access to those files at least temoprarily so that I can> unzip them or copy them to the internal hard drives where I can unsip them.? ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: Encrypted vs file permissions etc.
    ... Do you have a "backup" of the original profile (Documents & ... When I click Properties for any of the> encrypted files, then Advanced, and clear the check mark on Encrypt Files,> Apply, I get the error message in a dialog box: ... > -- How can I get access to those files at least temoprarily so that I can> unzip them or copy them to the internal hard drives where I can unsip them.? ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin)