REPOST: Re: advice sought on key/data histogram analysis of rijndael/128

From: Bryan Olson (fakeaddress_at_nowhere.org)
Date: 10/24/05 

Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:09:08 GMT

lkcl wrote:
> from what i have seen so far, i have come
> to the conclusion that there is nothing to "fix".
> hence why i have moved on to the next stage.

 From what I've seen so far, I'd put the chance that you've
found an actual statistical anomaly in AES at about one in
seven million.

> i have taken into account a number of very
> very useful suggestions and hints from people
> who have replied, for which i am very grateful.
>
> can i possibly make a suggestion that you
> give serious consideration to an independent
> implementation of the pseudo-code i've posted
> on here? not least to reassure yourself that
> mistakes that i could possibly still have made
> are unlikely to be duplicated, but also with a
> view to independently confirm the anomalies
> that are very very self-evident and unlikely to
> be simply statistical chance.

How about this: You provide a precise description of a
reasonable KEYED_PRNG(k), and values (i, j), such that:

     procedure COUNT_P(i, j):
         Ki = 1<<i /* all bits 0..127 other than i set to 0 */
         Dj = 1<<j /* all bits 0..127 other than j set to 0 */
         count = 0
         for k in [0 .. 204800):
             input = KEYED_PRNG(k)
             b = AES_ENCRYPT(Ki, input)
             output = AES_ENCRYPT(b, b XOR Dj)
             num_bits = bit_count(output)
             if pvalue(num_bits) < 0.01:
                count += 1
         return count

returns a value greater than 5000. I already know how to
implement AES, count bits, and compute p-values, so I'll
check it out.

> regarding your comments about the data being
> way-far out from the expected: if i were to
> show you the graphs from 0.01 < p_val < 0.02,
[...]

I'd prefer facts to graphs.

> i have always been careful in what i say

I could not dissagree more.

> and
> how i say it, in this thread, because to reach
> conclusions before being certain is just asking
> for people to go "*snort*. idiot. ignore him."
>
> can i therefore possibly ask you if you could
> extend the same courtesy of not jumping
> to conclusions

Fixing a bug in your code and asking what your unlabeled
graphs mean isn't exactly jumping to conclusions now is it? 

-- 
--Bryan
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From: Bryan Olson <fakeaddress@nowhere.org>
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Subject: Cancel "Re: advice sought on key/data histogram analysis of rijndael/128 and serpent"
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:52:18 GMT
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Subject: Cancel "REPOST: Re: advice sought on key/data histogram analysis of rijndael/128"
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:35:13 GMT
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