Re: md5 collisions and speeding tickets

From: Unruh (unruh-spam_at_physics.ubc.ca)
Date: 08/13/05 

Date: 13 Aug 2005 16:53:39 GMT

Johnny Bravo <baawa_knight@yahoo.com> writes:

>On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:41:12 +0000 (UTC), sam <sam@samsimpson.com>
>wrote:

>>I think the defense could argue "Point 1: The police clearly believe that
>>it's necessary to use a hash to protect the integrity of photo's, hence
>>this feature is built into the system. Point 2: The hash is now not
>>trustworthy for it's intended use. Point 3: The integrity of the photo
>>can now not be shown".
>>
>>I think it's a fair argument myself! If integrity isn't required, then
>>don't offer a hash. If it is and the hash is broken then the evidence is
>>unreliable.

> Or even simpler "Point 1: The government cannot prove that they
>haven't altered the camera to record higher speeds then people are
>traveling."

This is not exactly a novel argument. It has been possible every since
police existed. The courts will tend to believe the police unless the
accused can demonstrate that the police lied. In the case of technology it
seems that the judgement of the court is flying out the window.
A typed and signed confession is far easier to generate and change than is
one of the speed photos, but an argument by teh defense that the police
might have doctored the confession rarely receive any attention in court
unless evidence if brought in that they actually did so. Here the remote
possibility seems to have been given credence. Now I suspect it was
prosecutorial incompetence, but maybe not.

> An MD5 checksum is evidence that the data wasn't altered since it
>was recorded, it is in no way evidence that the data that was recorded
>is correct in the first place.

Nor are notes in the police notebooks. Nor is any other source of evidence
the courts receive and believe every day.

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