Re: Safe to transmit (symmetric) key encrypted with itself?

From: clem (clem_at_numeral.com)
Date: 06/30/05 

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:22:32 -0700

On 30 Jun 2005 05:59:34 -0700, tomstdenis@gmail.com wrote:

>[last reply on this subject...]
>
>clem wrote:
>> >Clem, the reason my response to Bob was "hostile" was to show him what
>> >his replies look like when coming the other direction. You seemed to
>> >be under the impression that someone who did some good can do no harm.
>>
>> No. I think that you are under that impression with LibTom, though.
>
>Yeah that's so easy to say isn't it. Given that the EXACT opposite is
>true...
>
>> Someone who did much good over many years and gave their life to it is
>> deserving of more rhythm. If he wants to say "wrong", then he gets to
>> do that.
>
>Why?
>
>> You started the ugliness (the real ugliness) with Bob, Tom. Not the
>> other way around. If you would just appolgize and really mean it, and
>> then back up your words with actions then you would be living in
>> another dimension.
>
>I have done nothing with regards to Bob for which I am ashamed.
>
>> My thing about Bob Silverman is that he is a card carrying old school
>> crypto big dog, and because of his stature he deserves better.
>
>Why? "crypto big dog"?
>
>HE WORKED FOR RSA FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
>
>It isn't like he wasn't already WELL COMPENSATED for his work there.
>
>> Your postions are not equal. You are the underling and he is the
>> overling. You cannot accept that.
>
>Except that in "reality" where the rest of us live that's untrue.
>Despite what you think I'm moving up from a college grad to a developer
>in fairly short order. My salary has gone from 0 to around $45,000/yr
>in only 3 months after graduating [one of those months I was on a
>freelance business trip to France]. I may be moving Stateside in the
>near future to being earning more money [and ideally travel more]. So
>despite what you think I am making progress.
>
>> That is the heart of the matter. You refuse to recognize, and refuse
>> to pay your dues when it comes to protocol.
>
>Totally untrue. When I first met Greg and Serge [just two examples] I
>stood up, shook their hands, etc... out of respect. I offered them a
>seat and had civilized discussions with them.
>
>Some "guy" who can't be bothered to correct mistakes in a polite
>fashion deserves no respect from me.
>
>> Your method flies in the face of established protocols of business and
>> relationships and respect for your betters in that context.
>
>Yeah, except that I am working commercially...So maybe my approach
>while different and hard for the likes you to comprehend is effective
>and worthwhile in the long run.
>
>Maybe I'm living MY life and not the standard issue life to which you
>seem to wholesale subscribe. Maybe I want to be a bit different not
>because I "just want to be different" but because I have based my life
>on a different set of principles. I give when I could take. I'm
>courteous without recognition, I'm
>hedonistic and can often be very pragmatic [when serious].
>
>In short, I'm not you.
>
>> And Bob Silverman and Daniel Bernstein are in the most genuine sense
>> of the word your betters in that context.
>
>How so? More people come to me [personally] for Crypto then I bet
>either of them... COMBINED.
>
>Do you honestly want to know much software uses LibTom projects? I
>mean I don't even have a good track of it [since it's free] but when
>you start realizing that people like DemonWare and Sony use the code in
>video game engines that they license out to other companies, it's easy
>to say there are probably hundreds of thousands of users of my
>software. Then you take into account projects like MatrixSSL, Organic
>Networks, Dropbear, etc. it grows considerably.
>
>Sure bob and dan can run circles around my math knowledge. But have
>either of them stopped to donate something useful to the public? Hell
>no. Bob worked for RSA where they develop commercial software and
>Bernsteins code is so horribly unmanageable as to make it totally
>useless.
>
>There are more than one way to contribute to society. And even so,
>neither of them do it as a personal sacrifice. Bob WORKED for RSA when
>doing the research and Dan WORKS for the university. Let's see them
>pursue open source projects [whether research with no goal of a patent
>or source code with no copyright] without getting paid. Then you can
>say they've sacrificed to make the world a better place.
>
>> You likely find it difficult to comprehend of anyone being better than
>> you, but in the context of human endeavor and relationship and
>> protocol in the study and the business of math/crypto that list is
>> huge.
>
>The facts speak otherwise. I mean yeah there are people who know more
>about the innards of say SSL or IPSEC or about the fine details of the
>NFS than I but you vastly underestimate the influence my projects are
>having on the scene.
>
>> And this next thing is just my opinion, but if you could get the past
>> the egocentric and disrespectful plateau you appear to be on, then
>> that list would be small. That would be a miracle, though.
>
>I'll just keep relying on the occasional thank you emails I get to
>re-affirm that everything you're saying here is bogus.
>
>> > He's not exactly beneficial to the
>> >group as a whole since any one of us could fill in for "use the GNFS"
>> >and "dumbass you're wrong!".
>>
>> I disagree. You devalue his abilities unfairly, but unfortunately
>> that is typically what you do to Bob and Daniel and fill-in-the-blank.
>
>I have yet to see Bob really write a lengthy reply, even to a question
>that has "been asked before". He usually just writes "read this" and
>goes on his way...
>
>Well yes, citations are helpful but sometimes people don't get the math
>[or the notation, for that matter I'd lump Alice Silverberg in with Bob
>in the "if you can't get my specific math notation then you suck"].
>
>Tom

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