Re: AES is not a group

From: Gregory G Rose (ggr_at_qualcomm.com)
Date: 04/29/05 

Date: 29 Apr 2005 14:23:07 -0700

In article <1114804456.341659.22010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Pubkeybreaker <Robert_silverman@raytheon.com> wrote:
>Proving that AES is not a group does not suffice to prove that AES
>isn't closed under composition. AES might be closed under composition,
>but not be a group.

True, but proving that it is *not* closed would
also prove that it isn't a group, which is what
proved that DES does not form a group.

I'm not aware of any proof corresponding to that
for DES, but my memory is telling me that there is
some other way to be sure that AES is not a group.
But whatever it was, just isn't coming to me. Not
very helpful, I know :-(.

Greg. 

-- 
Greg Rose
232B EC8F 44C6 C853 D68F  E107 E6BF CD2F 1081 A37C
Qualcomm Australia: http://www.qualcomm.com.au

Relevant Pages

  • Re: AES is not a group
    ... > Proving that AES is not a group does not suffice to prove that AES ... AES might be closed under composition, ... proving that AES is not a group does not prove that AES ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: AES is not a group
    ... Proving that AES is not a group does not suffice to prove that AES ... AES might be closed under composition, ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Identity AES transformation
    ... block cipher could fail to form a group under composition: ... That issue is, "do we gain ... as encrypting a block with key k1 and encrypting ... argument to be had over whether (to use AES as a concrete example) ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Blowfish (More Questions)
    ... what is the highest file size I should use under 1 key? ... That would be the birthday paradox limit, ... Why not just use AES ... Greg Rose ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: Isomorphism
    ... >the S-box one doesn't use the polynomial given in the standard ... >properties of the S-box change (with natural consequences to ... >AES as a whole)? ... Greg Rose ...
    (sci.crypt)