Re: Electronic Intercepts from Al Qaeda (Warning: LONG)

From: Harris Georgiou (xgeorgiou_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 01/08/04 

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:50:28 +0200

"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote in message
news:vdGdnX7Rx84z9mGiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> Harris Georgiou wrote:
> > ... either there is complete freedom or no freedom at all.
>
> Wrong.

Ok, that's an opinion and I respect that. However, I prefer to coincide with
most philosophers on this one (see Kant, Plato, ...)

> > The fact that this new set of measures are not related with US security
from
> > flying "kamikazii" airliners comes from the fact that it covers only
source
> > countries of Arab origin or countries with some special political
> > "background", as in the case of Greece.
>
> What drives the measures is the known degree of screening
> exerted by the source locations.

That's totally untrue. Except from the fact that airports like Heathrow
(London) exhibit passenger traffic many orders of magnitude than that of
most other EU countries, i.e. it is much more likely that tiny fraction of
"uncertainty" in security to be translated into a real incident, Eastern
Europe countries and especially Greece has NEVER been a place for ANY
terrorist attempt, for many decades now. Furthermore, FBI and other US
agencies are officially involved in upgrading the security in major airports
in Greece for almost 4 years now, because of the upcoming Olimpics. Either
they do not help, or they don't even trust their own people.

> > Same thing applies with the use of armed personel aboard airliners. The
> > security provided thus far by the airliner checking model relies on the
fact
> > that ALL passengers, including the pilots themselves, could not carry a
> > firearm with them aboard the plane. Having an armed officer aboard and
> > asking him to secure the plane against a hijacking attempt, is no less
than
> > asking him to be virtually invisible when boarding the plane in order to
> > avoid disclosure and able to shoot down a group of terrorists with no
> > civilian casualty, without even causing any bullet-damage to the
airframe of
> > the aircraft! Hollywood is one thing, real life is another.
>
> So why do you subscribe to the Hollywood view?
> ...

I believe I have proven my point - Gunshootings inside a flying airliner
looks like a bad action movie. In fact this is not my opinion, it's the
concluding analysis made by every pilot association in EU. Employing US
firearm legistlations (for personal protection) for commercial flights is
just a bad idea. Everyone seems to agree to that except the TSA.

> > What is even more concerning about these mandatory biometric scanning is
the
> > fact that no one really knows who is in charge of the whole operation,
how
> > these data are cross-referenced, where they are stored or for how long
they
> > are kept (if not forever).
>
> That information is available, and such details are subject
> to change if the agencies exerting oversight (e.g. Congress)
> think they need to be changed.

Obviously, you haven't travelled overseas these days. Passengers either
comply with biometric scans or they are expelled from the flight. No one
gives a clue about any of the details I mentioned. I should remind that the
UN legistlations in privacy state that anyone who wishes should be able to
ask and be granted access to these personal data, along with the explicit
option to ask for their removal and confirm they cannot be recovered by
anyone at anytime. I just don't see it happening in this case.

> The "terrorist situation" is undoubtedly not completely
> under control, but responsible agencies are doing the best
> that they think they can under the myriad of constraints
> and existing conditions.

Those myriad constraints come from employing basic social values in our
societies, far more important for the public than the temporary need for
false security.

> It is not at all clear that much can be done about the
> ultimate causes of terrorism, which are philosophical.

Apparently not. If all this bloodshed was just a matter of opposing
philosophical views, we would be glad to settle them once and for all by a
civilized conversation, maybe drinking a couple of tequilas... 

-- 
Harris
- 'Malo e lelei ki he pongipongi!'

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