Re: FTL Quantum Comm. via 2-photon Interference?

From: Bill Unruh (unruh@string.physics.ubc.ca)
Date: 03/06/03 

From: unruh@string.physics.ubc.ca (Bill Unruh)
Date: 6 Mar 2003 17:36:31 GMT

thinhvantran@cs.com (Thinh Tran) writes:

]"Neil" <paradoxer@lykose.com> wrote in message news:<v6aajpbncpit24@corp.supernews.com>...
]
]> A short summary of your own new (?) concept about probability, and why you don't
]> trust conventional QM (so, what do you trust?) might be helpful. Would it apply
]> to the situation at hand? - We've got to get *that* situation understood and
]> contrasted with other, simply situations first.
]>
]> Neil

][Reply] I will admit that I have not thought through the kind of
]examples that you posted. I need to think about it more.
] However, I can tell you the result of my research against
]probability as it applies to QM. Basically the main result is: There
]is no communication in QM correlation such as the case of Bell's
]inequality. IOW, QM correlations exist without communication. The FTL
]issue exists only because we have been conditioned to assume that
]communication is necessary for QM correlations. Since QM correlations
]exist without communication, there is no FTL issue.
] More specifically, because there is no communication the concept
]of communication speed is meaningless in QM correlation.

Agreed.

] Since there is no communication, there is no conflict between
]Bell's finding and SR (because SR doesn't apply to remote QM
]correlation,) and there is no need for the Many Worlds Interpretation
]either.

OK. The key issue is correlations. A (separated) quantum system can be more strongly
correlated than a classical system. This is the Bell's theorem. Now,
this stronger correlation could be the result of communication in a
classical setting. This has led people to say that this quantum
correlation IS the result of communication. That is of course a
non-sequitor.

Note that correlations are set up by some common cause in both the
classical and quantum systems. The questions occurs with the random
nature of the systems. How can a system be random and still exhibit the
strong correlations a quantum system can. What Bell proved was that
those stronger correlations could not arise from a common classical
cause. So, they are either classical and then must involve
communication, or they are not classical and need not involve
communication. Many people who prattle about FLT communication for some
reason believe that the first must be true-- that the world must be
classical and that therefor the correlations must be set by
communication.

The following analogy seems to be completely beside the point.

] I will clarify what I mean with a very simple analogy: Say you
]flip 1000 coins and record the results in sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.
]At the same time at 10 billion light years away your alien friend also
]flips 1000 coins and records them as 1', 2', 3', etc. Obviously there
]is no communication. If you pair up the data in any way you choose, as
]long as there is a pattern, say for example:
] 1. n paired with n'
] 2. n paired with n'+1
] 3. n paired with n'+1 then n+1 paired with n'
] etc.
] You will find that the set of pairs formed by the two sets of
]data will meet the statistical prediction 2H=0.25, 1H1T=0.5, 2T=0.25.
]Note that this correlation works without any communication at all.
]This is very obvious. In fact you can test it by running two
]simulation tests of coin tossing on your computer, then pair up the
]data and tally 2H, 1H1T, 2T.
] More complicated tests of 3 sets of data (obtained at 3 corners
]of the universe), 4 sets of data,..., n sets of data, etc. should also
]work out exactly as predicted by the laws of statistics.
] This analogy is not a QM distribution, but the same principle can
]be extended to QM with no major difficulty. Hope it helps.

] By the way, could you briefly state the finding of the Nature's
]article that you cited in your original posting? It may give me
]something to think further on your example.
]Thinh Tran (http://www.thinhtran.com)

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