Re: Is Windows XP firewall any good?

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:53:39 -0600, Bruce Chambers
<bchambers@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Does that help?

It does. Apologize. My mistake.

First of all, it is not the job of a firewall to protect You from
installing malware.
I never said that it was.

Yes You did.

I quote: "What WinXP SP2's firewall does not do, is provide an
important additional layer of protection by informing you about any
Trojans or spyware that you (or someone else using your computer)
might download and install inadvertently"

And just where, pray tell, does that sentence even imply that a
firewall will *prevent* the installation of malware?

I did not not use the term *prevent*. I used the term *protect* just
like You did.

Is English a second or third language for you?

It is. Sorry for not being part of the elite.

You don't actually have any experience supporting the
average computer user, do you.

You have no idea.

I am promoting the use of the simple solution (the windows firewall)
together with some common sense about how to behave to prevent being
infected. You are promoting installing an additional complexity for the average user to
comprehend.



I*'m sorry, but if you find such relatively user-friendly applications
as ZoneAlarm or Kerio are too complicated, you'll never learn to
maintain your own computer, much less help someone else.

You have no idea.

Because You are arguing that not checking outbound connections is a
missing functionality.

No, a simple statement of fact is not an argument.

When You later on promote other software because they *have* that
functionality, it becomes an argument to me.

That's no excuse. If they did care to do, they might spare themselves
of some spyware.

Excuse, no. However, it is reality.

A reality that must be changed. By education, not by installing
additional software that alarms You when the harm is done.


The ways to prevent malware being installed on a computer does not
really have very much to do whether You are a home computer user or an
IT professional.

But it does have everything to do with the computer user's level of
knowledge.

Exactly. That is why he should be taught how to act properly when
dealing with the internet.

If he can, as You claim, be taught how to properly use a personal
firewall, he can also be taught how to act properly. The latter being
the best of the two alternatives.

Adding a layer of protection doesn't create a "false sense of
security."

In most cases, for Your average user, it does.

I don't think you actually know any average users, then.

You have no idea.

However, no malware can "find a way" past a properly configured
firewall; it has to be invited in, normally by fooling the user into
opening the door.

Since the majority of users run as admin, it can.



No, it's simply not technically possible, regardless of the privilege
level of the user, as long as the firewall is properly configured.

The user would have to initiate some action to install the malware.

Of course. I never argued otherwise.

You argued that if malware *was* run, Your firewall should be there to
alarm You of outbound connections.

I argued that when malware *was* run, You could no longer rely on Your
firewall to protect You.

Oh yes, I know how to use them. But why provide the average users with
a complex solution if they can do well with the simple?


Why do you think personal firewalls are "complex?"

What You seem to miss is that for the average user, the technical
details of networking is not their prime focus.

I know a lot of users who are very skilled in what they are doing with
their computers. Still they have no idea what a port is. And, in my
opinion, they should not need to know.

The windows firewall does a good job in protecting without being
noisy.

I think it is only people like us in here who would even care about
outgoing connections. The average users would not know the difference
and furthermore most would'nt care. When they install an app it is
because they want to use it. It is meaningless to be asked if say
"Skype" should be allowed to access the internet.


You have an awfully low opinion of the average user, then.

Actually not.

I suppose you'd be correct in some cases, but I'd like to think that thhe consumer
is capable of learning.

He is definately capable of learning. Just teach him the right things
to do.

Furthermore a personal firewall will ask also pretty technical
questions about windows services being allowed to make connections or
not. Questions that the average user has no chance to answer properly.



Ah... The questions aren't really all that technical.

Ah... yes they are.

And, if relying upon the WinXP Firewall, you never will. You won't
even know the vandal has been there. Thanks for proving my point.

It just proves that You don't truly get my point.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: restore Cd how to use
    ... >Norton running automatic updates and my firewall was on, ... >was bombarded with adverts normally form virus removers. ... Adaware as is is still your strongest tool against malware, ... head is usually just a registry entry or web page that keeps on installing ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers)
  • Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
    ... Unfortunately the malware files in question have been erased and I have ... be resolved by installing a NAT, at least this is what I read out ... Firewall cannot help you anymore. ... format is a _best_ solution. ...
    (comp.security.firewalls)
  • RE: Vista Firewall
    ... Windows firewall is sufficient for the average user. ... cause of malware being able to by-pass the firewall is the user. ... Windows Firewall sufficient to protect incoming/outgoing information? ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.vista.security)
  • Re: (Somewhat OT) Bittorrent clients
    ... You never have to install software on a Mac? ... Every time you save a document you are installing it then... ... It's only common sense to use a firewall, ... to run a web server, database server, file server, application server, ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
  • Re: Is Windows XP firewall any good?
    ... it is not the job of a firewall to protect You from ... important additional layer of protection by informing you about any ... allow someone else to install programs on Your computer. ... In most cases, for Your average user, it does. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin)