Re: Is Windows XP firewall any good?

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 10:12:55 -0600, Bruce Chambers
<bchambers@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

B. Nice wrote:


Please explain what You mean by saying it is just "adequate"?



You apparently failed to comprehend the remainder of the post, although
you did interject mostly nonsense comments at several points, giving the
false impression of having actually read it.

Nonsense. The remainder of the post is primarily about outgoing
connections. Maybe You should re-read Your own piece that I was
actually asking for an explanation about. You stated: "WinXP's
built-in firewall is adequate at stopping *incoming* attacks"

I was asking for an explanation about why You called the *incoming*
protection only adequate. You have'nt answered that yet.


First of all, it is not the job of a firewall to protect You from
installing malware.

I never said that it was.

Yes You did.

I quote: "What WinXP SP2's firewall does not do, is provide an
important additional layer of protection by informing you about any
Trojans or spyware that you (or someone else using your computer)
might download and install inadvertently"

However, a properly configured firewall will
alert the user that something suspicious has slipped by his/her other
safeguards.

Maybe, and too late anyway.


That is Your responsibility only.


Thank you for that observation, Captain Obvious.

If it so obvious, then why does it repeatedly fail, Mr. Wiseguy?

Furthermore, If You have any concerns about security, You would never
allow someone else to install programs on Your computer.

Well, duh. Once again, you've pointed out the obvious. However, how
many households have a separate computer for each family member?

Irrelevant from a security standpoint.

Remember, the advice offered in this newsgroup is aimed mostly at the
average computer user, not IT professionals.

I *am* aiming at the average computer user. I am promoting the use of
the simple solution (the windows firewall) together with some common
sense about how to behave to prevent being infected. You are promoting
installing an additional complexity for the average user to
comprehend.

It even seems like You would rely on someone else configuring Your
firewall on the fly.


Where did that absurd idea come from?

You strongly indicated that.

I quote: "What WinXP SP2's firewall does not do, is provide an
important additional layer of protection by informing you about any
Trojans or spyware that you (or someone else using your computer)
might download and install inadvertently"

So someone else using Your computer should be alerted by Your
firewall. Would it be fair to assume that that same user would
afterwards also allow or deny the traffic? - I guess so.


Which, from a security standpoint, is a very good assumption.


Then why are you arguing?

Because You are arguing that not checking outbound connections is a
missing functionality.

It does'nt need Your permission. You authorized it already when
running or installing the program, most likely with administrator
rights.


Not on any computer I manage...

But it would'nt run if it was'nt allowed to.


Did You read the EULA?


Certainly, but how many others do so? Do you, each and every time?

That's no excuse. If they did care to do, they might spare themselves
of some spyware.


Did You consider how it was supposed to work?

Again, the advice offered in this newsgroup is aimed mostly at the
average computer user, not IT professionals. What I know and can do has
very little in common with the knowledge and skill set of the average
home computer user.

The ways to prevent malware being installed on a computer does not
really have very much to do whether You are a home computer user or an
IT professional.

Of course it will. How could it possibly destinguish between return
traffic for good or bad programs?


By being explicitly which was which, of course.

Not understood.

Don't impose a false sense of security on Yourself or others. The bad
malware that is determind to get past Your personal firewall will find
a way.



Adding a layer of protection doesn't create a "false sense of
security."

In most cases, for Your average user, it does.

However, no malware can "find a way" past a properly configured
firewall; it has to be invited in, normally by fooling the user into
opening the door.

Since the majority of users run as admin, it can.


are much more easily configured,

Rubbish.



Ah! Now we know why you dislike real firewalls. You can't or don't
want to learn how to use them.

Oh yes, I know how to use them. But why provide the average users with
a complex solution if they can do well with the simple?

I think it is only people like us in here who would even care about
outgoing connections. The average users would not know the difference
and furthermore most would'nt care. When they install an app it is
because they want to use it. It is meaningless to be asked if say
"Skype" should be allowed to access the internet.

Furthermore a personal firewall will ask also pretty technical
questions about windows services being allowed to make connections or
not. Questions that the average user has no chance to answer properly.

Why keep insisting that checking outgoing connections is a nescessary
extra layor of security? It is not. If You catch a malware that way,
what good does it do? It is already on Your machine, where it
should'nt have been in the first place.



So, by your reasoning, when one finds a burglar leaving one's home with
one's property in hand, there's no point in calling the police or
resolving to use better locks in the future? It's already too late?
Now, that is rubbish.

Your anology is not nescessarily right. It could just as well be
something like:

A vandal smashes a part of Your house. He also manages to install some
hidden doors to allow him to get back in. On his way out You manage to
get his mobile phone so he can't phone home saying: Job done.

The point is, You don't know what has happened.

Please also understand, that installing a personal firewall adds an
extra layer of insecurity.


Only if the user, like you, doesn't know how to configure them.

Really? - So firewalls never had vulnerabilities that could be used by
attackers? - Come on. It is not just a question of configuration.


Personal firewalls are just as buggy as any
other software.


Really? Software can be buggy? Who knew?

According to Your previous answer You did'nt seem to know.
.

Quantcast