Re: ** READ THIS BEFORE POSTING - answers to frequently asked questions 2003.08.13

From: Karl Levinson [x y] mvp (levinson_k_at_despammed.com)
Date: 08/16/03 

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:35:00 -0400

I want to thank you for taking the time to point out these problems to me, I
will address them.

Since you say meta refresh is superior to javascript, I will try to replace
it where I can, such as on the no frames page. I use script redirects on the
frames version of the page in order to simplify the links [all links posted
to the newsgroups are anchors from the same easy to remember faq.htm, page
even though I eventually had to give in and split up the FAQ into separate
pages due to the size and long loading time]... and also the redirects
maintain backwards compatibility with the older links that have been posted
over the past year that would otherwise no longer work.

You're right, I had forgotten about the onmouseover script, but I still
don't see how that's a big problem. Even www.microsoft.com uses them. I
thought it was clear I was really trying for a plain, simple, no frills page
choosing content over flashy style and using Notepad with only the most
basic of HTML code. I originally wanted the FAQ page to be just plain HTML
in one self-contained page with other FAQs like alt.comp.virus as a model,
but the length of it made that problematic.

Boy, I log on my Saturday and get two different posts saying that the FAQ
sucks. Not exactly how I expected to be spending today.

"Vanguard" <rztqf6v02-NIX@sneakemail-NIX.com> wrote in message
news:ejw38G8YDHA.2136@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

> When I go to http://securityadmin.info/noframes, IE6 never stop trying
> to download your page - which is trying to change to
> http://securityadmin.info/noframes/faq.asp. A couple lines of text
> appear in the browser window telling me about the redirection and then
> the browser continually is told to downloading something else. In the
> status line at the bottom, I see "Opening page
> http://securityadmin.info/noframes/faq.asp..." keep flashing by. If I
> close IE6 and reopen to this URL (so there is some page in its file
> cache), I get the page without the flashing "Opening" status but with an
> error stating "Line: 26, Char: 1, Error: Permission denied, Code: 0,
> URL: http://securityadmin.info/noframes".
>
> At http://securityadmin.info/noframes, you use Javascript to change the
> window to the new URL. What's wrong with meta-refresh? Your script
> doesn't work and instead ends up with IE6 constantly trying to open a
> page that probably doesn't exist or the user doesn't have permission to
> access. So do all those pages specified by "window.location.href =
> ('http://securityadmin.info/noframes/faq.asp' + namedanchor)" actually
> exist? Can anyone look at them?
>
> Oh, and YES, you DO use script mouse tricks. That doesn't mean that
> they are nasty tricks. It just means that you use them. Take a look at
> your faqmenu.htm file and notice the onmouseover event. The onmouse*
> events are mouse tricks (and don't work without scripting). Review
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html. This trick is often
> employed to execute a script when the user moves the mouse somewhere on
> the page, even if the link is invisible or hidden. According to PopUp
> Cop's online glossary:
>
> Mouse Trick
> Web sites use "mouse tricks" for purposes such as menus, most of which
> are benign. If you disable them, do so with with caution: turning mouse
> tricks off will cause many web sites to display incorrectly. If you're
> interested in the details, study Javascript. The Javascript mouse trick
> programming mechanisms are called "event handlers". The events related
> to the mouse are mouseOver, mouseOut, mouseMove, mouseDown, and mouseUp.
>
> You can even use the onclick handler to open a page other than what the
> <A> tag specifies, so the user cannot be sure to where they are
> navigating, and obviously the site is lying about where the user will
> go. I visit lots of major sites, like IBM, Intel, Seagate, and so on
> and they do not rely on script mouse tricks (unless you go to their
> specialized customer-only sites but those are SSL protected or otherwise
> trusted), or they are benign like yours and do nothing to change the
> behavior of the site, in which case having PopUp Cop block them does not
> affect the real behaviors of those pages.
>
>

Relevant Pages