Re: Can "trusted Computing" be trusted?

From: Imhotep (NoSpam_at_nothanks.net)
Date: 05/06/05 

Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 19:19:37 -0700

andy smart wrote:

> Imhotep wrote:
>> andy smart wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Imhotep wrote:
>>>
>>>>Robert Moir wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Imhotep wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>It has "big business scam" written all over it. I wonder how many
>>>>>>suckers are going to buy into it?
>>>>>
>>>>>A scam eh? Oh if its one of those you want, why not look at when the
>>>>>definition of a platform for OEM versions of windows got redefined from
>>>>>"the computer" to a specific motherboard. Thats a real world actual
>>>>>problem going on today.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCPA might have a lot of applications. Some of them might be useful to
>>>>>normal users like us. Some of them will be more interesting to people
>>>>>like the the music and movie industries, but thats the way the world
>>>>>works - 'the rich get richer' and all that.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think its a "scam", I think its an economic weapon. Like all
>>>>>weapons, the evil isn't in the object but the finger on the trigger.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Exactly. And I do not trust who the finger belongs to...nor should you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Do I worry about my govt. using TCPA to properly classify and restrict
>>>>>its own documents? No! It is a generally accepted notion in our society
>>>>>that govt's need secrets to function, even if only on a temporary basis
>>>>>to control(rather than inhibit) the release of information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The question is not about needing secrets. It is about the lengths
>>>>Corporate America will go to...this is question. And I am sorry but,
>>>>this "solution" goes too far.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Do I worry about TCPA being used to make phishing type scams more
>>>>>difficult? No. Isn't that a good thing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Read the link below...you are not getting the point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Do I worry about my rights being taken away via TCPA (lets pick
>>>>>something 'trivial' such as the ability to record MP3s of music I
>>>>>already own, for my own use)? Yes of course I do. But the problem is
>>>>>the people who want to take my rights away and who are already doing
>>>>>that, and who will find another way to do it if TCPA were strangled
>>>>>somehow. Guns don't kill people, people do.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>Rob.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Please read.
>>>>http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
>>>>
>>>>IM
>>>
>>>I'm pretty much with Rob on this one - sure trustworthy computing will
>>>restrict my freedoms to do certain things, but it will also restrict the
>>>freedom of criminals to do certain things. It might make it hard for me
>>>to turn my own CDs into MP3 tracks for my own use, but if I were a
>>>musician I'd far rather that it were harder for criminals to steal my
>>>work rather than pay me for it (and yes it relatively hits composers as
>>>much as it hits record companies, just the amounts are different). I
>>>read Richard Stallman's article with interest, but Stallman has a very
>>>extreme vision of free information, and with respect to Stallman it's
>>>more a vision than a practicality.
>>
>>
>> Well, I agree with Stallman. I bought my computers and only I should have
>> control over what is installed and what is not. We all get angry when
>> spyware, really meant as a marketing "tool", gets installed on your
>> systems. However, now when can at least remove it. With the new systems
>> coming YOU won't be able it. If some company decides that you should have
>> the piece of software running (along with their legitimate software) they
>> can and will install it. You can do a damn thing. This reeks of disaster
>> and frustration for users.
>>
>> Secondly, this is being done for no other reason than big business greed.
>> Big business wants to protect their interests nothing else. If you do not
>> see this than you are naive.
>>
>>
>>>As Rob Moir says, governments need to have secrets - those of us in the
>>>UK lived with terrorism from 1969 to recently from Irish terrorist
>>>groups and the only way to deal with this is to keep secrets and by
>>>means of covert operations. In the Stallman view the right of people to
>>>free information outweighs the need of governements to conduct covert
>>>operations; as somebody from a country where we had terrorism (like
>>>bombs in crowded shopping centres) I know that we need that.
>>
>>
>> You totally missed what stallman and I are saying. I too worked for the
>> government (US). Believe me I understand the need for secrets. It is not
>> about the need for secrets. There is one. It is about control. Big
>> business sees piracy as a big problem for them. Piracy should be handled
>> by laws not by turning PCs into terminals...Whatever happen to innocent
>> until proven guilty?
>>
>>
>>>If we are not to live in a society with no laws and rights, then we have
>>>to accept that our rights must be limited.
>>
>>
>> No we do not. Who do you think really benefits from this really? Are you
>> that naive? This is just the muscle for the Millennium Act. Nothing more.
>>
>> I just read this. Please take a peak. The Music industry is trying to
>> "leverage" this professor at Carnegie Mellon University to include "anti
>> piracy" lectures in the classroom. His reply was sent to the newspaper
>> and a link to it is below...
>>
>> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/497993.stm
>>
>> Im
>>
> No, I'm not being naive I think. I just accept that EVERYBODY has rights
> and that includes the music industry's right to prevent copying and the
> software industry's right to prevent piracy.

Sure. The statement I have been making is the balancing of rights. The
question I have been asking is the questioning of the real motives behind
"Trusted Computing"...if you look deep enough you will see that this is
just about protecting Big Businesses interests at the cost of people's
rights. There must be a better way...

> The reason there are
> businesses is to make a profit - the reason you can buy food from the
> store is because farmers/growers/supermarkets etc want to make money.
> Personally I like software released under the GPL - but that is the
> choice of the software author.

This has nothing to do with GPL/GNU...This is in fact about how companies,
when protecting their profits, can reduce people's rights. Even to the
point of remote controlling your PC. In fact "Trusted Computing" is not
about you "trusting" your PC it is about corporate America "Trusting" you
on your PC...

> If you don't wish to buy a system with
> trusted computing built in, then don't; that's your choice.

It will not be my choice or yours. They are working on a bill that will make
it impossible of a "NON Trusted PC" to be allowed on to the Internet. Now,
do you see how naive you are being?

You can not increase someone rights at the cost of another...especially when
it is fueled by greed and corruption.

-IM

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