Re: Howto refresh IIS 6 Application pool identity credential info

Hi Tiago,

I think I understand, but I still have some questions.

This is our situation :

We have the following configuration :
For simplicity I'll use simple names.

2 WebUI Servers (W2K3, IIS6) , named WEBUI1.mycompany.local and
WEBUI2.mycompany.local,
both have a A-record in DNS (it's the 'physical' name of the machine).
The WebUI Servers are load balanced clustered, with the name
WEBUICluster.mycompany.local, it has a A-record in DNS.

2 Application Servers (WK3, IIS6), named APP1.mycompany.local and
APP2.mycompany.local,
both have a A-record in DNS (it's the 'physical' name of the machine).
The Application Servers are load balanced clustered, with the name
APPCluster.mycompany.local, it has a A-record in DNS.

2 DB Servers (Micrsoft SQL Server) , named DB1.mycompany.local and
DB2.mycompany.local
both have a A-record in DNS (it's the 'physical' name of the machine).
The DB Servers are Fail-Over clustered, with the name
DBCluster.mycompany.local, it has a A-record in DNS.

Application 1 is deployed as :

www.application1.local on both WEBUI Servers, 'Virtual' Server using
HostHeader names in IIS, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
WEBUICluster.mycompany.local.

app.application1.local on both APP Servers, 'Virtual' Server using
HostHeader names in IIS, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
APPCluster.mycompany.local.

db.application1.local on both DB Servers, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
DBCluster.mycompany.local.


Application 2 is deployed as :

www.application2.local on both WEBUI Servers, 'Virtual' Server using
HostHeader names in IIS, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
WEBUICluster.mycompany.local.

app.application2.local on both APP Servers, 'Virtual' Server using
HostHeader names in IIS, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
APPCluster.mycompany.local.

db.application2.local on both DB Servers, it has a CNAME in DNS referencing
DBCluster.mycompany.local.

and so on ....

How do you suggest to implement the above scenario, and what would you use
for the IIS application pool Identitities for each IIS 'Virtual' Servers ?

I know I'm asking a lot.

Kind Regards,

Peter


"Tiago Halm" wrote:

I doubt the cluster environment has problems with kerberos tickets, as long
as the account name and SPN alias is correctly defined on both nodes.

You'd need to register an SPN for both Applications and database, assuming
they can all authenticate kerberos. For example assume a browser accessing a
webpage, the webpage accesses a webservice, the webservice access a
database.

Now assume the following logical layers:
webapp.mycompany.com running with domain\webappAcc hosted in IIS
websvc.mycompany.com running with domain\websvcAcc hosted in IIS
data.mycompany.com running with domain\dataAcc running SQL Server instance

You'd need to create the following SPNs:
setspn.exe -A http/webapp.mycompany.com domain\webappAcc
setspn.exe -A http/websvc.mycompany.com domain\webappAcc
setspn.exe -A MSSqlserver/data.mycompany.com:1433 domain\dataAcc (need to
check this one on MSDN)

Next, make sure domain\webappAcc, and domain\webappAcc have delegation
enabled to the proper SPN (this can be done in AD after setting the SPNs)

Finally, make sure the webapp and the webservice delegate the accounts. The
webapp can delegate via <identity impersonate="true" />. The webservice (if
ASMX) can do the same, or if WCF can be done via changing the config file or
programatically (recommended in security terms).

Setting kerberos on all layers should not be difficult, the only difficult
piece is your data layer (I don't know which is), but should be simple.

Hope it all makes sense.

Tiago Halm

"Peke" <peke@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:69115199-EEBB-4055-B9E5-40CFE3E87B21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello Tiago,

I'm not that familiar with Kerberos delegation.

Let me try to explain what we want to achieve :

Let's assume we have 2 servers : an Application Server (AS) and a Database
Server (DS).
Let's assume we have 2 applications : A and B.

Application A is hosted on AS and has his own application pool : AP-A
Application B is hosted on AS and has his own application pool : AP-B

Application A has a database on DS : DB-A
Application B has a database on DS : DB-B

Only account A has access to database DB-A
Only account B has access to database DB-B


Application A and Application B have an application security based on
Active
Directory and NTFS on AS :

For example : a user that wants to use application A, has to be in a
group
G-A that has file access to the files of application A.
Sometimes that user can be account B.

We tried to use Account A and B as Application pool accounts, but if
Account
B is added to the group G-A, the security info is only refreshed after
IISRESET. Another problem of this implementation is that we can't use
Kerberos in a clustered environment (???? problems with SPN's -->
different
accounts for the same 'physical target' ???? )

Would Kerberos Delegation help in this case ? And if that is the case, how
should it be done ?

Kind Regards,

Peter




"Tiago Halm" wrote:

Peter,

I probably didn't get the exact requirement that took you to change the
group membership of the Pool account, or why you're not using kerberos
delegation for your needs. But I'd set the process identity with least
previledge (NETWORK_SERVICE or a simple domain account). Create the
needed
Aliases/SPNs/HostHeaders. I'd then delegate the identity with Kerberos
from
the UI to the application layer (WebService). The application layer
(WebService/BAL/DAL) again authenticates and authorizes the account as
needed. The Pool identity is the one accessing the backend resources like
DBs, etc...

U = User Identity
P = Pool Identity

U => (U) UI (U) => (U) WebService/BAL/DAL (P) => (P) DB

Where doesn't this scenario fit?

Tiago Halm

"Peke" <peke@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:345B6F2C-93B2-4184-839E-29132BDBCD38@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello again David,

We are 'investigating' the impersonation alternative.

What is your suggestion for Application pool identity ? "preconfigured
network service account" or a domain user ? (for a clustered
environment).

Our applications are developed in .NET.

How can we protect the impersonation information ?
We've been checking 'protected sections' in web.config and the
aspnet_setreg.exe utility, but in both cases it's really easy to get
the
impersonation info with a few lines of code (see below).

And since we would use just one account, it would have access to the
impersonation info of ALL the applications.

Other pitfalls :
- what if an async call is made ? --> by default the process Id would
be
used.
- what if a developer removes the section from the config file ?

Seems to me that you have to trust the developer a lot. I know that a
developer can do anything he likes in his code, but as long as it's
just
his
own application, I don't care.
But in your scenario, he could get access to other applications by
reading
the impersonation info using the process account and so have access to
the
backend systems of other applications. This seems very dangerous to me.

Any suggestions on how to close that security gap ?

Kind regards,

Peter





---------------------------------------

Imports System.Security.Cryptography

Public Class Form1
Private Sub Button1_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As
System.EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click

TextBox1.Clear()

TextBox1.AppendText("userName : " & GetValue("userName") &
vbNewLine)
TextBox1.AppendText("password : " & GetValue("password"))

End Sub


Private Function GetValue(ByVal key As String) As String

Dim readValue As Byte()

readValue = My.Computer.Registry.GetValue _

("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Digipolis\PekeApp\Identity\ASPNET_SETREG",
key,
Nothing)

readValue = ProtectedData.Unprotect(readValue, Nothing,
DataProtectionScope.LocalMachine)

Return System.Text.Encoding.Unicode.GetString(readValue)

End Function

End Class

------------------------------

"David Wang" wrote:

I'm sorry, but I do not have any suggestions. I understand what you
are doing and it is pretty clever to a degree, but I believe there are
fundamental problems with your design beyond just incompatibility with
IIS6 that you must choose another design.

IIS is being consistent with security while what you are doing is not
consistent with security (but I do admit it is clever and can be
convenient in some contexts), so it is unlikely IIS will change. I
understand that you have an existing codebase that is being migrated,
so it is really not going to change. So the design has to change.

For example, your design either serializes access to the webserver to
one user at a time, or it is insecure. How? Proof by contradiction --
assume two different users belong to two different user groups have
authorized access overlapping in time. User1 comes in and the AppPool
identity changes group membership to have Group1 and accesses data.
While this is happening, User2 comes in and the AppPool identity
*needs* to change group membership to have Group2 and access data.
What if the two groups are different or conflicting in access
privileges -- you certainly do not want User1 to temporarily have
access to files of User2 simply because your AppPool Identity
momentarily has group membership in both Group1 and Group2 while both
users are accessing different resources through the same system at
overlapping times. Thus, to be secure, the process identity must be in
only one Group at a time, which means that only one user can be
actively using the web server at a time --> this is serialization. Or
if you allow multiple users simultaneously it means that User1 will
temporarily run with a process identity that is in both Group1 and
Group2, thus have additional and/or contradicting privileges --> this
is insecure.

Also, what if the action triggered by the user is asynchronous? How do
you ensure that the user group membership of the Process Identity on
the async callback is the same one as when the call was first made?
Remember, the async callback can happen at any time.

The only secure way to use your authorization scheme using Group
Membership is to make everything synchronous and single user, which
works but will never scale.

Basically, your design looks clever and avoids passwords, but it is
really not feasible when you look at the details. You basically mapped
Roles to Group Membership and to avoid passwords you chose the Process
Identity. However, this fails for all the reasons I stated above, so
IIS never allowed such behavior in Application Pool Identity (let's
not even get into how your scheme plays havoc with Web Garden, or Skip
Process Recycle on Config Change).

Impersonation with user identities and having delegation enabled on
credentials with static and diverse Group Membership flowing through
the system is really the built-in option of how to be secure and
scalable. AzMan approach is a suitable alternative where the Roles are
dynamically bound.


//David
http://w3-4u.blogspot.com
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
//





On Mar 4, 11:08 pm, Peke <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello David,

Sorry for the delay.

I'll try to explain how our applications work.

We develop .NET application using multitier-layer (UI, Webservice,
...).
We've build our own application security, comparable to AzMan, which
wasn't
available at that time (Windows 2000 Active Directory) ; it is based
on
roles
and privileges.

IIS (6) is configured to use 'Integrated Security'.

Basically : users are put in a group (or removed from if they no
longer
need
access) that has Read rights on the filesystem where the IIS virtual
directory (or IIS virtual server) is pointing to.

The user's privileges are checked in the business part (Business
Facade),
and from that point de application pool identity (a domain user) is
used to
access the data store(s).
That 'data store' can also be another WebService (Service Agent).
--> this is where the problem is : the application pool identity is
becoming
a member of another group to get access to the other application.
But
the
security context is only 'refreshed' after IISRESET.

A few reasons why we do it that way :
- Easy security maintenance on the data store (only the application
pool
.