Re: brown-out
From: Leythos (void_at_nowhere.lan)
Date: 11/23/05
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:18:55 GMT
In article <11o9bobfjchaf0a@corp.supernews.com>, EJhyd@netscape.net
says...
> on 11/23/2005 6:37 AM Leythos said the following:
> > In article <4383EFF0.31A525BF@hotmail.com>, w_tom1@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >> A claim that some appliances were protected by a UPS. For
> >>that claim to be valid, then all other appliances without UPS
> >>must be damaged. As stated so many times previously, with or
> >>without the UPS, that appliance still may not be damaged.
> >>Science first asks which appliance makes a good path to earth
> >>ground. Earth ground - what the UPS manufacturer does not
> >>even discuss. Missing earth ground - which defines a plug-in
> >>UPS as ineffective protection.
> >
> >
> > The claim I've made is that the devices on the protected side of the APC
> > UPS have been protected, and in fact, none of hundreds of protected
> > devices on the many APC UPS's have been damaged at any time in all the
> > history I have using quality UPS devices. At the same time, during the
> > exact same situation, I've had devices connected to the SAME AC outlet
> > at the wall as the UPS, that were rendered unusable/inoperable by the
> > surge/power condition that did NOT effect the APC protected devices.
> >
> > SO, lets make this clear and simple for you w_tom:
> >
> > 1) Same AC wall outlet (since it has Dual our Quad sockets).
> > 2) APC UPS unit connected to #1 above
> > 3) Other devices connected to #1 above, not connected to UPS protected
> > side
> > 4) APC Protected side devices never damaged at any installation
> > 5) Non-APC protected devices damaged many times during surges.
> >
> > There it is, simple, easy to see, clear, exact conditions, exact
> > results, simple proof that a quality APC UPS will protect your devices
> > against power conditions that damage other devices.
> >
>
> That won't be good enough for him. He thinks that it is not "proof"
> unless the set described by your #3 includes _all_ unprotected devices
> connected to the AC line. Presumably the hypothesis is that if _any_
> unprotected device is not destroyed, then there is no evidence that the
> protection did any good. He talks science, then does not actually apply
> the scientific method. There are two competing hypotheses, which more
> likely fits the facts as presented? Look at the statistics over what
> appears to be a long baseline of observations:
>
> Protected devices - - Damage = 0%
> Unprotected devices - - Damage = X% where "X" is non zero and, in
> statistic speak, significantly different from zero.
>
> Apply Occam's razor and you know that Leythos is right. But you won't do it.
>
> Ok, w-tom. Time for you to chime in and demand actual raw data, so that
> calculations can be done. Naturally, Leythos does not have it. He was
> likely not tracking that information, and if he was, it's not worth
> digging it up for you.
>
> Tell you what, Mr. scientist, why don't you post all your raw data that
> shows actual devices damaged by surges behind a quality UPS unit. for
> each case, be sure to post the device damaged, number of undamaged
> devices behind the same unit, the nature of the transient that caused
> the damage, and the make and model of the UPS involved. Then we can
> evaluate *your* proof that a quality UPS does not provide any
> protection. If you are right, then damage = X%. where "X" is non zero
> and, in statistic speak, significantly different from zero.
You know, that's the proper tact to take with w_tom, ask him to provide
the stats on number of units protected by a quality UPS system that were
proven to be damaged by a "disturbance" not conditioned by the quality
UPS.
It would be interesting for him to provide the PROOF that a SU2200 APC
UPS on a properly grounded AC line does not protect the devices attached
to it. Funny thing is that he can't prove it using his methods, and I've
never run into a admin/network person that's had a APC SU2200 or their
other units in the same class, that's had a fried system due to UPS
failure to suppress a surge.
-- spam999free@rrohio.com remove 999 in order to email me
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