Re: brown-out

From: John Hyde (EJhyd_at_netscape.net)
Date: 11/23/05 

Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:01:53 -0800

on 11/23/2005 6:37 AM Leythos said the following:
> In article <4383EFF0.31A525BF@hotmail.com>, w_tom1@hotmail.com says...
>
>> A claim that some appliances were protected by a UPS. For
>>that claim to be valid, then all other appliances without UPS
>>must be damaged. As stated so many times previously, with or
>>without the UPS, that appliance still may not be damaged.
>>Science first asks which appliance makes a good path to earth
>>ground. Earth ground - what the UPS manufacturer does not
>>even discuss. Missing earth ground - which defines a plug-in
>>UPS as ineffective protection.
>
>
> The claim I've made is that the devices on the protected side of the APC
> UPS have been protected, and in fact, none of hundreds of protected
> devices on the many APC UPS's have been damaged at any time in all the
> history I have using quality UPS devices. At the same time, during the
> exact same situation, I've had devices connected to the SAME AC outlet
> at the wall as the UPS, that were rendered unusable/inoperable by the
> surge/power condition that did NOT effect the APC protected devices.
>
> SO, lets make this clear and simple for you w_tom:
>
> 1) Same AC wall outlet (since it has Dual our Quad sockets).
> 2) APC UPS unit connected to #1 above
> 3) Other devices connected to #1 above, not connected to UPS protected
> side
> 4) APC Protected side devices never damaged at any installation
> 5) Non-APC protected devices damaged many times during surges.
>
> There it is, simple, easy to see, clear, exact conditions, exact
> results, simple proof that a quality APC UPS will protect your devices
> against power conditions that damage other devices.
>

That won't be good enough for him. He thinks that it is not "proof"
unless the set described by your #3 includes _all_ unprotected devices
connected to the AC line. Presumably the hypothesis is that if _any_
unprotected device is not destroyed, then there is no evidence that the
protection did any good. He talks science, then does not actually apply
the scientific method. There are two competing hypotheses, which more
likely fits the facts as presented? Look at the statistics over what
appears to be a long baseline of observations:

Protected devices - - Damage = 0%
Unprotected devices - - Damage = X% where "X" is non zero and, in
statistic speak, significantly different from zero.

Apply Occam's razor and you know that Leythos is right. But you won't do it.

Ok, w-tom. Time for you to chime in and demand actual raw data, so that
calculations can be done. Naturally, Leythos does not have it. He was
likely not tracking that information, and if he was, it's not worth
digging it up for you.

Tell you what, Mr. scientist, why don't you post all your raw data that
shows actual devices damaged by surges behind a quality UPS unit. for
each case, be sure to post the device damaged, number of undamaged
devices behind the same unit, the nature of the transient that caused
the damage, and the make and model of the UPS involved. Then we can
evaluate *your* proof that a quality UPS does not provide any
protection. If you are right, then damage = X%. where "X" is non zero
and, in statistic speak, significantly different from zero.

Cheers,
JH

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