Re: [OT] Silly (copyright?) claim by "Galen".
From: Frank Slootweg (this_at_ddress.is.invalid)
Date: 11/20/05
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Date: 20 Nov 2005 12:26:59 GMT
Galen <galennews@gmail.com> wrote:
> In news:437f43c2$0$88568$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl,
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> had this to say:
>
> My reply is interspersed just for you:
>
> I'm sorry but I have been busy today else I'd take more time but you asked
> for brief as well. So, well, just think... You get interspersed AND brief
> all in one go.
Well, I got some interspersed response. I didn't get brief at all. For
someone which says he is pressed on time, you sure are long-winded
(and irrelevant). So next time, keep it *really* brief (and
interspersed).
> > Just one other attempt to address the main issue from a slightly
> > different angle:
> >
> > Galen <galennews@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [much deleted]
> >
> >> If you are reading this in a browser and that browser is pointed to a
> >> domain now owned by Microsoft then it's being used without
> >> permission.
> >
> > Just execute this URL:
> >
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ufeYimI7FHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>
> >
> > That will show your article, i.e. the one I am responding to.
> >
> > Now pretend that you are someone outside Microsoft's domain(s) (or
> > ask someone who really *is* to execute the URL).
> >
> > - Do you agree that "you are reading this [your article] in a
> > browser"?
> >
> > and
> >
> > - Do you agree that "that browser is pointed to a domain now owned by
> > Microsoft"?
>
> No, I said "not owned by Microsoft." I'll take it that was a typo.
No, it was not. Please *read* what is written. The browser is pointed
at google.com which is "not owned by Microsoft".
> > If so, then why do you think "it's being used without permission"?
> >
> > If you do not agree, then why the heck not?
>
> Because it is? Did I at any point say "Hey, you can republish what I wrote.
They, Google Groups, do not "republish" what you wrote. They just
offer a web/GUI interface to *Usenet/News*. If you don't want what you
wrote to be on Usenet/News, then don't *post* it to Usenet/News (at
all).
[more of the same deleted]
> > Note that the Google Groups (<http://groups.google.com>) example is
> > just that, an *example*. There are lots of other sites which offer
> > browser access to Newsgroups (Usenet and otherwise). Like Google
> > Groups, they do not need your permission to offer such services.
> >
> > When responding, please be precise and (somewhat) less long-winded
> > and respond in an interleaved way, i.e. quote-response,
> > quote-response, etc., instead of in your usual bottom-posting way.
>
> Why you keep winding this up around copyright
I don't. Where exactly did *I* refer to copyright? I only did it in
my initial subject and put a question mark after it, because I didn't
know if your claim was a claim on copyright. You responded that it
wasn't, so I left it at that.
So again, *read* what is written and respond to what people *actually*
wrote.
> (consider now that Google,
> Microsoft, and I are all headquartered and located in the United States and
> subject to those laws) which would actually support my "copyright claim"
> (that I'm not really at all making and have made sure to say this time and
> time again) is beyond me. What do you not understand? Does Google have a
> right to copy all of my post and post it? I'm pretty sure that my posting to
> a newsgroup does not, by default, confer those rights.
They don't "copy" your posting, they just make it available as any
Usenet/News server does. Whether you (and I and anybody else) like it or
not, Google Groups is (for this discussion) just another Usenet/News
server which happens to have a web/GUI interface.
> They do leave an
> alternative - I can use the no-archive tag in my header. What? Err.. That
> would mean I'd have to do something to stop them from stealing (yes it's
> stealing - taking without permission is just that) my posts. They are,
> simply, taking without permission, I'd give it if asked. It's not at all
> about me and that's where you seem to be hung up.
>
> It's about getting information (again) to the user. Do you have some sort of
> issue with the end-user knowing how to access the Microsoft newsgroups? Did
> you not read the response(s) about the myths people seem to believe about
> copyright? Sad but yes - I could claim such things and yet I'm not. Instead
> my goal is to convey information. Yet, in this area, you seem inclined to
> censor that information. Have you ever made a website? How would you feel if
> someone copied the whole thing, rebranded it, and then either gave it away
> or made money from it? Me? I'd be flattered! I'd ask that they a) tell me
> how they did it and b) have asked ahead of time. Are those so unreasonable?
> Is this concept of something NOT being free beyond the scope of what you
> think the internet is made of? I truly DO want to know now. At first I
> thought you some sort of meaningless troll (sorry but that was my first
> impression) but now I see you're zealous and not at all just making silly
> remarks but rather are making statements on your beliefs. For what ever
> record you're keeping, I accept that. (I still have one more message to get
> out so I really MUST shortent this.) Your post is there - did Google ask you
> if it was okay if they included it on their site, made money from it, and
> rebranded it? No? Then it's WITHOUT permission unless you, for whatever
> reason, have opted to arbitrarily allow the copying of your work. And that's
> fine too, but what if I didn't?
The main points I can derive from this and similar rants is that you
think sites like Google Groups are "rebranding" your posts (whatever
that means) and that (you think) they "make money" from your posts.
I think you will have to explain/prove those claims to this audience.
As to the latter point: Google Groups, which I have to (apparently)
stress again is only an *example* of a provider which offers web access
to Usenet/News, is a *free* service, so what money are we talking about?
Also other Usenet/News providers ask money from their subscribers. Do
they also not have your "permission" because they charge their users for
their services? Is your ISP free of charge?
> (Again) I do... I just think it fair to know
> the source of the information and as such opted to put that in my signature.
> This is so infuriating why?
It is not infuriating, but, as I said, silly. Now that so many people
have explained why it is silly, it's no longer just silly, it's stupid
(as in being unable to learn).
If I were you, I would take out the claim or take out the "MS MVP -
Windows (Shell/User & IE)" bit (and associated URL). No offense, but I
wouldn't take a MVP which is clueless in these, related, matters
serious. That you say you are a IE MVP only makes things worse, because,
besides Usenet/News, you also have (too) little clue about the web.
> You've now spent how much time on this? I'm not
> above name calling but in this particular instance all you had to do is wait
> and I cycle out old signatures fairly regularly unless,
And I was supposed to know that exactly how?
> for one reason or
> another, they're important in which case they stay for a while longer but it
> almost always reverts to a Sherlock Holmes quote.
>
> Anyhow, just out of curiousity I'm going to leave the additional groups in
> this send.
It again didn't work, because the list of Newsgroups still is:
> Newsgroups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.privacy,comp.security.misc
Just check in your Sent folder. Open the sent article and do as I
showed you (File -> Properties -> Details -> Message Source...) and you
will see the above "Newsgroups:" line).
> I'll look at the headers and see if maybe I can figure out how it
> made it there though I accept newsgroups crossposting because, well, that'd
> be HOW you access the drivel that I had to say in the first place??? Not
> through some site requiring registration,
You keep on mentioning this "some site requiring registration" bit.
That's another of your misconceptions: (For *example*) Google Groups
does *not* require registration for *reading* postings (I even *showed*
you that, see above), only for *posting*. There are millions of people
who *read* postings with Google Groups, but never post via Google
Groups. I am one of those people.
> not for paying for ad impressions,
Again: *What* "paying"? Nobody, at least no *reader*, is paying
anything (to Google Groups).
> but by a client of your choice in a fairly free system of information
> sharing. Taking it FROM the newsgroup and posting it in an ALTERNATE form is
> beyond what permissions were expressly given (and yes, I think I'd be an
> absolute idiot to say that they couldn't be crossposted by me or in response
> to me to another newsgroup) and as such my statements stand true. What part
> of the signature do you NOT like?
The silly and untrue bit, which is the whole bit.
> Heck, wait a week, it will change surely.
Promises, promises.
> --
> Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
> http://dts-l.org/
>
> Please note that if you're reading this in a browser and the domain is
> not owned by Microsoft then this work is being used without permission.
>
> Access MS Newsgroups :
> http://kgiii.info/windows/all/general/msnewsgroups.html
- Next message: karl levinson, mvp: "Re: Download freeware RKR scanning software (detect Sony rootkit & others)"
- Previous message: w_tom: "Re: brown-out"
- In reply to: Galen: "Re: [OT] Silly (copyright?) claim by "Galen"."
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