Re: Zone Alarm (free addition) and Netscape dialup accelerater.


On 31-Aug-2006, "Jason Edwards" <none@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

How would the average Windows user know how to correctly set up the
rules

Google?

A minefield of incomprehensible information to the average Windows user
if the subject is firewall configuration.

There is a lot, you do have to know how to narrow your search, but you are
assuming that the average Windows user is too dumb?
incomprehensible = too dumb
Your bias is showing.
Too lazy I would agree with.

Help files within the program?

The last time I looked at the help in ZA it wasn't very helpful. As an
example
it would refer to a box for an IP address and say something like "In
this box
you enter an IP address".

Oh come on, what, is that the pop-up box you are talking about? When you
hover your mouse over the field? I meant the 'real' help files.
Besides, what more do you want it to say? If you had a question about
what is was going to _do_ with that ip address, you should have hovered
above or below where it said what that box was for (besides entering the
number). Are you being obtuse on purpose here or what? Bias peeking out
again?

Yes, I know 'most' or 'average'
users won't, but the answers aren't usually too hard to find, all the
software can do is make it as easily available as possible, without
shoving it in the face of a more advanced user.

Why would personal firewall software want the user to understand it?
If they understood it they might conclude that they don't need it.

I think almost all software would prefer that its user know how to use it
as fully as possible, I think your bias is peeking out yet again.

and
what would stop malware changing the rules? What would stop malware
making other
changes to the firewall or disabling it completely while making it
look
to the
user like it's still working?

I think checksums and maybe 'other' methods, hey, I am not the
programmers, I do not know _all_ the inner workings.
The obvious (to us) is to be careful and knowledgeable while surfing,
checking emails, etc., I'm sure the programmers do all they can, but
it
does indeed come down to the users behaviour online.

You don't think that Microsoft should fix Internet Explorer then?

Entirely up to them. The only time I use it is for manual Windows
Updates.
Otherwise, I use Firefox.
Free enterprise in action.

It is after all the major route that malware takes into a home Windows
PC,
particularly when Microsoft's implementation of Java is in use.

And I try to spread that as loudly as possible everywhere I can, to try to
persuade people to use any other alternative they like.
Firefox, Opera, there are quite a few 'good' browsers out there, I tell
people this every chance I get.

No matter if they
put brakes on a car, if you fall asleep at the wheel and don't hit
them,
you will hit that wall in front of you - same for surfing online even
with
a firewall, it is (supposed to be) subservient to the user, if they
don't
'use' it correctly it really isn't the softwares 'fault'.

Windows isn't to blame then?

Of course it is. It is why we need pf's.

It's either the user's fault or incorrect
use of the personal firewal.

Yep.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Bad online habits and / or improper usage (allowing things before knowing
what they are).
Back to the car thing, do you blame the car when the driver is drunk?

What would stop malware using
communication
channels which are not blocked by the firewall?

Program permissions?

Why is the average personal
firewall user not aware of these issues?

Lack of specific education about it?
Whether it is the software coporation(s) that does not shout about any
possible deficiencies (is there any corp. that does?), or just the
user
not paying attention to what _is_ reported in the media.

We sure don't hear Microsoft shouting about the deficiencies in Internet
Explorer.

Not their job. Their job is to try to sell it to you.
That is Consumer Reports job. NY Times, PCWorld, PCMag, WSJ, your local
newspaper, etc. etc. etc.

Why are groups like microsoft.public.security.* full of people who,
in
many
cases, seem to already have personal firewall software but are still
in
a dazed
and confused state about why their computer seems to be possessed?

There are indeed people that should not use computers,

Why? Why can't they have a computer which doesn't fill up with malware
after a
few weeks of use?

Because it is not the computer, per se, but the users behaviour in the
long run.

but until there is
some kind of test (like a drivers test for your drivers license)
before
you are allowed to buy one, any schmuck/bozo/moron/whatever with an IQ
under 80, but with the money, can go buy whatever they want.

I'm not sure the car analogy is good one because a properly designed
computer
for the average user shouldn't be able to hurt anyone else no matter
what the
user does.

What utopia are you living in? I would really like to move there too!
If Joe six pack or Freddy the lawyer go surfing 'dodgy' sites, clicking
here, clicking there, open emails with no clue what is inside, download
the latest 'cool' p2p app, and otherwise do all the things 'we' know
better than to do, do you really think that the criminals won't get in
with your 'properly designed computer'?
Please, tell me where I can buy one or three of these!

And don't give me 'linux'. that would be untrue for the purposes and users
we are talking about here.
You have already said they can't even google.

Or, even if
they are almost a genius, but know nothing about computers, just that
they
want one because everyone else has one.

Perhaps they should have been supplied with one which is secure by
default and
doesn't require detailed knowledge to keep it secure.

Where?
Where do I get one of these wonderful machines you keep talking about?
Quit with the fantasy already, we are trying to stay in the 'real' world
here, ok?

Instead they get an insecure operating system and some personal
bloatware which
claims to make it more secure but is actually designed to do little more
than
sell (make money).

Yep, that is the way it is right now. So, we try to patch / fix / do what
we can about it.
Up to and including using a pf.

This is not the user's fault and it is definitely not something which
can be solved with personal firewall software.

I disagree.
I mean I know what you are trying to say about the bloatware Winblows and
all that, but that is what we have to deal with.
It is the users fault because we all do actually go out and give these
companies our good money for, as you say, 'insecure operating system'. If
your fantasy machine was available, I bet we would buy that instead, yes
indeed.
And, it is the users fault if he/she/it does not 'bother' to learn how to
use the program (pf) correctly. Is it a hammers fault if you hit your
thumb instead of the nail you are holding? No, it is the fault of the user
for improper 'usage' (aim, in this case).
Also, there is no 'solution', nothing will be 'solved' in this real world
we live in - in my or your lifetime in all probablity - so, with the OS we
have to deal with, proper security is an ongoing 'process', and at this
time pf's can help,

This has sure gotten long!
--
Don't Panic!
.

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