Re: News Release

Cliff <> wrote:
Right. But this is not the end of what citizens can do, should do.
They should have a look on onto what's going on, and if it's going
wrong, they should interfere.
Interfere? That is a problem not a cure. They should object. Interfering is
nothing more than obstructionism, there are ways to object without

Of course, I mean interfere with provisions which are valid in a
democracy only. Objecting is one possibility.

This is why you're carrying your weapon, right? You want to be the one
in control, not letting officials do what they want.
Absoloutely not. Carrying a weapon is a personal choice and only for self
protection. No one knows this but me. I do not control anyone or try to I do
however make my objections known using other methods. The first time that I
were to try and "not let officials do what they want" I would not only be in
jail, I would lose my right to own a firearm.


Keep cool. This is just a misunderstanding. I'm not talking about using
brute force in any way.

I disagree, the US would have had a good chance of catching the 9-11
terrorists if they would have coordinated intelligence.
I think, the main error was not this, because the terrorists were not
US citizens.
The main error was that the CIA could not share information with the FBI.

On which information are you basing this view?

Offices and states are nothing which can be implemented without strict
control. They're powerful, and for exactly the same reasons they're
useful, they're endangered for being abused, they're dangerous.
does not mean that the CIA can spy domestically it just means that the
information can be shared with domestic intelligence agencies.
As a beginning.
No not as a beginning as a rule of law.

Yes, of course. But laws have possibilities, you can do some things with
laws, other things will not work.

There is crime in spite of laws, for example.

Civil rights and the integrating of investigation and intelligence are a
big problem. Combining intelligence services and giving them too much
power is a very big problem.
We have not combined intelligence services and that is where you are making
your incorrect assumptions. Having two seperate agencies that share
information but that are seperated in their duties is not the same as
combining agencies or allowing your foreign intelligence services to spy

In theory, you're right. "The difference between theory and practice is,
that in theory both are equal." ;-)

Hey, I'm European. I'm used to visit friends in Spain by entering an
Airplane, and that's it. I'm used to enter Switzerland by having people
at the border who want to see my passport.
Then may I suggest that you visit Spain and Switzerland instead of the US.

This is what I'm doing now.

And now I want to go to the US - and then _this_. Sorry, they're getting
mad here. The NSA and the CIA maybe better should infiltrate the
Islamistic circles instead of installing sattelites, then they would know
what's going on. But what should this be? "Don't come to the US, we
don't want contact with you" to me?
If you cannot respect answering a few questions then maybe we don't want you

Yes, this is the feeling you're giving me. Sad.

Please have a look onto Diebold's machines yourself, before you're
arguing here. Hint: this is a security newsgroup.
I have read a lot about the diebold machines but have yet to see any
convincing evidence that tampering is an issue. Maybe you can change my
Yes. Just read the actual Crypto-Gram. I think, you can trust in Bruce
for such purposes:
Do you mean:
"A Diebold Insider Speaks
Yes, it's sensationalist. But there's some good information here."

No. Just read the facts, please.

BTW: "war" is a mode states can be in. It is nothing what you can have
with criminals.


It is not a war that we started

Not intentionally. And it's really not a war. I hope it will not become
a war. :-((

We certainly do not have to treat them as criminals as they are not
criminals they are terrorists at war with the west. (You included)

Terrorists are a form of organized delinquency, just like the Mafia,
but sometimes with political objectives.

His own words, when he played down these terrible crimes first.
So that automatically makes him guilty?
No. And I'm not expecting him to be punished, I'm expecting him to resign,
because he totally failed with his responsibility.
Hardly, he has done an exceptional job.

Exceptional, yes. Having a look onto the results, then I must say:
very exceptional, indeed. :-/

I'm excepting the US citizens to fire him, because he is responsible for
the people who did such things in the name of the US, if he is not
This is the meaning of "responsibility" I know. I really don't
understand, what else could be meant with this word.
So then the CEO of a company should be fired because an employee was caught

If many people in this company were tortured for months and all the
people with a leading position looked away, and the management looked
away, and after months this will come out because press is getting
photos, which were shared among the employees for months, what do you
think would a attorney do with the CEO of this company?

Let him say "I don't know what my people are doing at all", and that's

Aren't there police?
Sure there are. Police come after your dead, not before.
Ah, then the police in Germany is much better, I see ;-)

Hm... usually they come before you're dead ;-)

At first there was the word. And the word was Content-type: text/plain

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