Re: M$ attack on Common Sense

From: Sinister Midget (sm_at_kcsmartNOSPAM.org)
Date: 09/14/03 

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:37:59 -0500

As Leythos so eloquently gibbered on Sat, 13 Sep 2003 at 23:33 GMT:

> Linux is not a typical home user OS, it's about impossible for any
> typical, non-technical type, to install on their computer - esp. if they
> have to download and compile the source (which you would want to review
> before you compiled it right?).

Right there is another point where lack of understanding is rampant.

I've used linux for several years, at home, as my main desktop, and I
only started dealing with the server stuff later. Not once, never, not
at all, have I *ever* had to compile everything to get a desktop
machine. Period.

Not once have I *ever* needed to check the source to see if it was
safe. Instead I've been able to download the ISOs from trusted sources,
check against the MD5SUMs to be sure they're safe, burn them, plug them
in and install. Usually a few questions, a run to the corner grocery or
a shower, and I come back to a machine ready to reboot into a fully
operational and stable desktop.

More than that, I've installed things with much less of a problem than
I've ever had with Winders. I've only had to download a separate driver
once. Except for that one time, at the end of the installation I had my
video settings working properly, printer working, sound working, NICs
working, all external drives working (SCSI, USB, IDE, etc), all except
a scanner: I always have to set that up separately. The one time I had
to download a driver was for a lexmark printer.

Contrast that with every install I've done with a retail version of M$
products. Not once has any of those booted into a properly working
desktop that had even most things working correctly. Each and every one
required me to install separate drivers (along with reboots for most),
one at a time, and, in most instances, configure them for proper
operation, all after installation was "complete".

You really should check your facts just a bit before finding yourself
lost in a sea of gibberish. Whether you pretend to know something you
don't, or you're deliberately misleading things, the above, as put
forth by you, is pure voodoo nonsense.

> As for server installations - in both communities there are ignorant
> admins that install them as servers and don't patch the OS. I just read
> a bunch of flaws for nix at http://www.linuxsecurity.com/advisories/ and
> found just as many problem as with Windows 2000 server.
>
> From my experience in the IT world, for almost 20 years of designing
> circuits, micro-electonic designs, chips, PC Boards, assembly code,
> programming in 14+ languages, administering 12+ OS's and all their
> updates, it's not the OS that's the problem, it's the people installing
> it and how they learn (or not learn) to manage it.
>
> Both have a place, both are targets - the only reason you hear so much
> about MS and not Linux is that Linux is a smaller target because it has
> a smaller HOME USER BASE.

It's more than that. Even considering scale, linux has far less
problems. Apache runs heaps more of the interent than IIS. Which has
more documented problems? Even Apache on Winders has far less trouble.

Infections in the linux world are rare. Very rare. Numbers of users are
only a small part of the reason. Most of the reason is due to how the
operating system was designed. With linux (and most unices) security
was among the first considerations. With Winders, it was purely
afterthought. And it's still being addressed with lip service.

Infections in linux have been small for a long time. The numbers of
users has increased (we can argue about how much, but there's no doubt
they've increased), yet the numbers of infections have been relatively
stable in real numbers.

We can count the numbers of reported insecurities (to do so properly,
we need to count everything that runs on Winders that has problems as
well, not just M$ inspired bugs), but that doesn't really tell it all.
Micro-Soft doesn't report everything, and sometimes only reports things
when they put out a patch. Lately the patches usually include several
fixes (some that don't really fix anything) at the same time, making
the real count appear lower. Also, as the parenthetical part of this
paragraph points out, Micro-Soft is only counted as having bugs that
are related to the OS, but linux is counted for bugs in someone else's
implentation of a word processor or a script or a database. That's like
counting individual coins vs a roll of coins and calling each of them
one unit.

And OSS developers have been far more open to reporting their bugs
early and fixing them quickly than the behemoth has with its problems.

Then there's the numbers. Micro-Soft is one maker of one OS. If it has
one bug, that's one unit. Even if the same bug affects 95, 98, ME, XP,
2K and NT, it's still generally viewed as one bug, therefore one unit.
But, if a bug is reported in linux, it's reported as one for Redhat,
one for Debian, one for SuSE, one for Gentoo, one for Mandrake, etc.
That means one bug in linux is often counted as 10-30 bugs because it
affects nearly all of the releases. But it's *still* only one bug. And
if Apache has a problem that affects everything including Winders, it's
counted as a bug for all of the linux distros using it, but not even
once for Winders. And that very thing happened not too long back. 

-- 
SoBig: Innovative Microsoft peer-to-peer software at its finest.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: bad experience with Suse 9.1 on Inspiron 8200
    ... > it is an M$ bug, such technicalities are irrelevant to the end user. ... :-) Windows has ... work as long as they work, trying to install a nitrous ... Linux are at least a *little* bit curious about how their computer works ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: A very simple question...
    ... applications on the CDs, or available for download. ... just as easily via yast. ... Using (suse linux) web browser Konqueror, I clicked on the file in the ... I have not counted the clicks to find and install this, ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: Dev-C++ compiling problem in Vista
    ... Linux system like Gerard Beekmans. ... holes and exploits that plague Windows due to the latter failure to ... And many of the programs you'll need are on the install CD itself. ... have to trust the site you download from. ...
    (comp.lang.c)
  • Re: Cursor mysteriously moves all by itself
    ... >>> Download and install the latest drivers for your video card and mouse. ... > then you haven't run most of the Linux distros available for Free ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Linux is not...
    ... That's what I was hoping for from Linux, ... I know there are places to go and stuff to download that promises to help ... allow me to install "applications" that I want or need, ... and would work with added hardware that I decide I want to use. ...
    (alt.linux)