Re: Ethical hacking

From: nemo_outis (abc_at_xyz.com)
Date: 06/27/05 

Date: 27 Jun 2005 19:30:17 GMT

Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in
news:d9pi19$71a$2@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca:

> "nemo_outis" <abc@xyz.com> writes:
>
>>Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in
>>news:d9pdul$3f2$5@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca:
>
>>> "nemo_outis" <abc@xyz.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I will express my attitude and it straddles the legal and illegal
>>>>versions. Succinctly: It ain't criminal if they can't get a
>>>>conviction! As for what is ethical or not - that, like beauty, is
>>>>largely in the eye of beholder.
>>>
>>> Well, I would expand the definition of illegal to ask "Could they
>>> get a conviction if they truely had all of the facts in the case."
>>> (Ie, if the hacker truely and accurately told everything he did).
>>>
>>> A conviction is not the only measure of criminal activity.
>
>
>
>>Because law (and its counterpoint, criminality) is ultimately a praxis
>>- that is, practice or performance - I chose to emphasize an
>>operational definition :-) Speculation regarding what might apply in
>>some hypothetical case (e.g., complete information) seems an
>>unfruitful line of inquiry.
>
> So, almost all of the activities of the mafia are not criminal?

A much-maligned group of ethnic businessmen who embody capitalism and
entrepreneurship to the highest degree in their dedication to providing
the community with much-desired and otherwise difficult-to-obtain goods
and services :-)

And, despite my facetiousness, there is a large grain of truth in there.
The difficulty in obtaining convictions is a testament, not merely to the
internal coherence and discipline of that group, but also to unresolved
tensions within the community and various factions within it, with law as
only one aspect of a complex nexus of competing values, needs, and goals.

>>Law, as an institution, is only the codification of other people's
>>wishes, backed by threats. As such I give it due weight in my
>>assessments of risks and consequences, but not more than that.
>>Ultimately the law, to me, can only have an advisory function.
>
>>Which is not to say I take it lightly or disregard it casually. The
>>law, despite its limits and imperfections, represents an accumulated
>>weight of human thought and practice, refined and polished over many
>>years. When I say it has an advisory function, I mean I listen very
>>carefully to that advice, take pains to fully understand it, and
>>evaluate it judiciously .
>
>>But, in the end, it is I who decide.
>
> Of course. That is also the claim that the mafia would make, or any
> other what is usually called a criminal organisation would make.

It is I who, law-abiding or criminal, must ultimately reap the
consequences of my actions - for good or ill. Who better then to decide?

In the end we all must make our own decisions and take the responsibility
for them. It is only fools and knaves who pretend they can slough off
the decision-making and the responsibility to others.

No amount of internalizing other folks' values (whether called laws,
ethics, norms, traditions, religion, superstitions, or whatever) can
relieve a man from examining and deciding how much or little he will
allow his conduct to be determined by them. To be an other-directed
sheeple may be comfortable, but it is an abdication - no, a betrayal - of
personal integrity.

 
 
>>Regards,
>
>>PS I have been an expert witness many times, so I do have
>>considerable exposure to both sides. And, I might add, I have never
>>been convicted of so much as jaywalking!
>
> I have also been an expert witness, and have concluded that laws that
> require the testimony of expert witnesses are usually incompetent
> laws.
>
> I also assume that your expert testimony is primarily determined by
> who will pay the most as well. That would be consistant with your
> position above.

Pay the most? Not necessarily. There are other benefits to be weighed
including interest, amusement, and promotion of my professional
reputation. As it happens, I have more often represented the government
than industry (although I've done both).

Relevant Pages