Re: Trojan horse Downloader.Generic.ML

From: Ron Reaugh (ron-reaugh_at_worldnet.att.net)
Date: 06/16/05 

Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:43:34 GMT

"Jason Edwards" <none1@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3hbf5hFg0qm4U1@individual.net...
> "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:qW_re.324813$cg1.141727@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Jason Edwards" <none1@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:3hbbasFg5jjsU1@individual.net...
> > > "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:EKYre.963481$w62.31381@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > It's the file C:\NULL
> > > >
> > > > Suddenly shortly after cold boot my fully updated(WinUp) and patched
> > W98se
> > > > PC reported the above noted infection. It's Grisoft free AVG with
the
> > > > latest updates. This PC is also protected by ZoneAlarm, Belkin
WiFi
> > > router
> > > > with firewall, SpyBot(resident).
> > >
> > > And do you use Internet Explorer?
> >
> > Yep, the very latest and fully patched/WinUp-ed version.
>
> Ok, so it's probably only got approximately n+100 vulnerabilities left to
be
> patched.

Maybe but do you have any evidence that any of these has been actually used
in a penetration recently? OR are they all just potential?

> >
> > > > A normal Shutdown was done 12 hours
> > > > earlier with no indication of any problems.
> > >
> > > There wouldn't be.
> > > If something did sneak in via an IE or some other vulnerability then
it
> > > would most likely not run until the next startup.
> >
> > Are you saying that AVG's resident and SpyBots resident(watching reg
> > updates) wouldn't have caught it at the time of infection?
>
> Yes

Why? If that's not what they're lookin for then what are they lookin for?

> > > > There are still no indications
> > > > of any problems EXCEPT that AVG claims it's found this trojan.
> > >
> > > Sounds like an indication of a problem to me.
> > > A false detection is a possibility but there is no way for me to be
> > certain.
> >
> > That c:\null IS a bogus file from an unknown source suggests that there
> was
> > no false detection.
>
> It does, if you are sure that C:\NULL is not part of anything legitimate
or
> anything you have done yourself.

I'm sure. You ever heard of c:\null?

> > > > There have
> > > > been no floppy operations/mounts, no CD operations/mounts and no
> > downloads
> > > > and installs of anything since an hour before shutdown last night
and
> > now.
> > >
> > > But you did surf with Internet Explorer?
> >
> > Yep and other than the possibility that you are a FireFox drum beater,
> the
> > use of a fully updated IE generally does NOT expose one to such when a
> fully
> > functional firewall, virus checker and spyware checker are in place.
>
> I don't wish to upset you but it took me a while to stop laughing after
> reading that.

Provide some references that suggest that is not the usual and EFFECTIVE
model?

> > > > From the DOS prompt I can see a file C:\NULL that has a 5/5/05 date.
> > > Since
> > > > 5/5 both a full manual AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 run have been done
on
> > > this
> > > > PC finding nothing.
> > > >
> > > > So where and how did this file C:\NULL that AVG claims is Trojan
horse
> > > > Downloader.Generic.ML appear from? Was it really there since 5/5
but
> > went
> > > > unnoticed by both AVG and Trend HouseCall 6 and then this morning
AVG
> > > > suddenly downloaded a new definition file which started seeing this
> > > trojan?
> > >
> > > Virus scanners don't have any magical ability to detect trojans, they
> have
> > > to be told what is a trojan and what isn't via the updates.
> >
> > Right but 5/5/05 is over 30 days old...am I some special case alpha
> > infection point?
>
> Nope, you're just an average Windows user who got the trojan that wasn't
> widespread enough to be noticed immediately.

I find that unlikely but barely possible.

> > > An anti-virus
> > > vendor may manage to do an update in less that a day if the
virus/trojan
> > is
> > > all over the news but it may otherwise take longer. Trojan writers are
> not
> > > under any obligation to send copies of their trojans to anti-virus
> > vendors.
> > >
> > > > OR did something penetrate all the firewalls and suddenly spawn this
> > file
> > > > which AVG quickly recognized?
> > >
> > > I have no idea where C:\NULL came from but if it were on my PC I would
> > want
> > > to know what it was.
> > > If I was sitting at the PC which had C:\NULL on it then I'd look in
> > C:\NULL
> > > to see what was there.
> >
> > After one noticed it. I don't inspect c:\ or c:\win or
c:\win\system[32]
> > hourly to spot undesirable files. That's what I got AVG etc. for.
>
> I don't either, but I don't allow additional executable files on to the
> system in the first place, so I don't have to go file spotting very often
on
> my own machines. I also don't need AVG.
>
> >
> > > I'd also find out whether anything in there was referenced during
> startup.
> > > For that I'd need spybot S&D in advanced mode or
> http://www.hijackthis.de/
> > > or just regedit.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What likely happened here?
> > >
> > > Impossible to say. One possibility is that you got something via an
> > > unpatched IE vulnerability.
> >
> > I was under the impression that there weren't any of these that have
> > resulted in actual infections any time recently. Lots of new
> > vulnerabilities keep being found and reported and fixed. And that's all
> > before there is any infections/penetrations using them and that's what
> I've
> > been hearing for over a year.
>
> Who have you been hearing this from?

Where have you been hearing the other from?

> Ask yourself why there is a cumulative update every month.

YES, please do so. Have you been reading about the intense preemptive work
going on to find the holes before the hackers. From what I've heard that's
been effective down to with a day or two for the last year or two.
References otherwise?

> > > Another is that AVG is/was giving a false
> > > detection. Another is that I don't have a clue what happened.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The operation I was in the middle of when AVG popped up was reading
a
> > text
> > > > only no attachment NG message in OE 6.00.2800.1123.
> > >
> > > Did this message contain a link/url that you happened to click on?
> >
> > NOPE! I assume that the NG message reading had nothing to do with it
but
> > then what did??
>
> It is not possible for me to say for certain what did.
>
> If I were you I'd wipe the drive and reinstall the operating system.

Clueless!

> There is no other way to be sure that your system isn't compromised.

Now you've established your credentials.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Trojan horse Downloader.Generic.ML
    ... >> updates) wouldn't have caught it at the time of infection? ... >> vulnerabilities keep being found and reported and fixed. ... Have you been reading about the intense preemptive work ... > If I were you I'd wipe the drive and reinstall the operating system. ...
    (comp.security.firewalls)
  • CERT Advisory CA-2003-04 MS-SQL Server Worm
    ... code that most likely exploits two vulnerabilities in the Resolution ... traffic generated between hosts infected with the worm targeting SQL ... Activity of this worm is readily identifiable on a network by the ... protection whatsoever against the initial infection of systems. ...
    (Cert)
  • RE: [Full-Disclosure] short Blaster propagation algorithm analysis
    ... http://eEye.com/SecureIIS - Stop known and unknown IIS vulnerabilities ... short Blaster propagation algorithm analysis ... | infection was successful. ...
    (Full-Disclosure)
  • Re: my day and comments to a couple of you = long.
    ... Oh my did I enjoy reading this post which covers a great deal of what life ... then Sunday felt like an infection coming ... massive urinary tract infection (lots of white blood cells indicating ... (we have been holding off on this for a year due to risk of infection ...
    (alt.support.arthritis)
  • RE: [fw-wiz] Worms, Air Gaps and Responsibility
    ... consumer appliances like Wireless Access Points, SOHO Routers, Tivos, ... infection short of returning it to the distributor if the programmer was ... Even Cisco is not immune to the exploits. ... I think it is fair to say any OS has had it's share of vulnerabilities over ...
    (Firewall-Wizards)