Re: sick of Linux bias
From: John (jwholmes_at_muskyscent.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 05:01:28 GMT
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:00:24 +0000, Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
> "John" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:18:56 +0000, Leythos wrote:
>> > In article <email@example.com>,
>> > firstname.lastname@example.org_way says...
>> >> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:22:50 -0500, Jim <email@example.com> wrote:
>> Anyone who genuinly wants to save money should go Linux. You can buy
>> 1 copy of say, SuSE 9 for $79 and install it 10 times for the desktops
>> one more for the server.
> <Sigh> The same old claim, the same old error. Or does noone read license
> agreements anymore?
True, I did make a mistake here. Linux itself and most of the distros
components can be installed freely howver, the SuSE box set does have
>> OpenOffice comes with it and can do 90% of what
>> Office does which is about 50% more than most people use. I admit Linux is
>> weaker in project management software. You may need wine (free and
>> included) to run Project. Dia and other diagraming programs may be
>> adequate but Visio is better so run that under wine also. That means you
>> will total $877 for the whole thing. Oh and you can run it on your
>> existing computers if they can handle Win98 or NT 4.0. No need for
>> expensive hardware upgrades.
> That's true, and one reason that SuSE in particular are apparently
> flourishing in MS-hating Germany. (Or should I call them Novell..? SuSE, not
> the Germans.. ;o)
> The current distros have come forward in leaps and bounds - IIRC, RH5 & 6
> were very finicky with NICs and graphics cards. This variable hardware
> support is one of the major problems, IMHO - you don't have to be operating
> /that/ many machines before you have to start exchanging your six days'
> consultancy for hardware. As I've discovered to my cost, RH9 can't handle my
> generic 15" LCD panel.
Strange. I have an 18" Envision that worked without so much as a reconfig.
Just unplugged the old 17" anvil and plugged in the LCD. No reboots!
>> There will be some training costs but not
>> much. Linux can operate pretty much like Windows for office people if
>> desired and OpenOffice is too close to need explaining for most people.
> <Cough> You met any genuine business users recently?
Actually yes I have. I know most of them are not interested in computers,
they just want to do their job. I still say the few repetitive things most
office workers do are also easy to do in Linux. And yes I do know that
there are groups of people who need a particular application for their job
and they must use whatever operating system runs that application. What
anyone likes doesn't matter in those cases be it Solaris, Windows, etc.
>> Oh yeah, you will also get the leading DNS software (BIND), leading web
>> server (Apache), leading e-mail server (Sendmail), a good firewall
>> (iptables) that will probably require hiring someone to setup but then all
>> firewalls should be setup by someone who knows what they are doing. You
>> also gain immunity from most (not all) viruses, increased reliability,
>> better user support and flexibility should your needs change. Both SuSE
>> and Microsoft are easy to update but SuSE needs it less frequently since
>> it is less of a target and arguably more secure.
> I'd argue about the better user support. I'd also argue against a Linux
> newbie attempting to setup Sendmail without knowing what they're doing (or,
> more accurately, deconfiguring it from a machine that doesn't need mail).
> Thankfully, basic firewall config is now included as part of the
> installation - something that Solaris has had for years. (Shock horror -
> something on-topic for this froup ;o)
User support is pretty bad across the board no matter what computer
product unless you are a really big company who is worth their while.
Witness Dell moving corporate support back from India. I think the little
guy will get as good or better support under Linux but they may not
realize it because they don't know where to turn. A failing of Linux PR. I
agree that no newbie should setup a custom sendmail but the
same is true for exchange. Both can be royally screwed up without
knowledge. To deconfigure just remove it using rpm or Yast2 just like a
Windows box that doesn't need it.
> Glad to see that you've mentioned the update frequency, though - always a
> major headache for a large organization, who tend to think in five-year
> financial cycles. A techie's glee at frequent updates is a depressing cost
> overhead for a CFO.
> Talking of ongoing support costs.. I'm still trying to puzzle-out where all
> of these cheap Linux experts are hiding - the evangelists always mention
> them, but I never seem to find any. Cheap idiots claiming to know Windows
> are, unfortunately, ten-a-penny - as one would expect with that sort of
> market share.
Yeah, I have seen very few cheap and good IT people. That dilemma is os
agnostic. I do feel that the lesser number of Linux people available tend
to average better skills on the os. That's average skill level. The best
are the best no matter what system.
>> I used SuSE for the example but there are other distros that work as
>> well. RedHat has recently ditched the home user/SMB market for the
>> enterprise but you can buy/download RedHat 9 still.
> True - I think that you'll find this happening more and more - particularly
> as more business people see it as a valid competitor to MS. These companies
> are around to make money, after all.
> And finally, a declaration of non-interest: I don't give a toss what OS I'm
> using, just so long as it's the best for the task in hand.
Despite my obvious bias I admit Windows is still king of the desktop and
will be for some time. I am seeing less and less Windows servers though.
I am proud to say that at my last company we had over 40 linux servers
with more than a year of uptime when a lightening strike during UPS
servicing took them down. God I love patching and updating without
rebooting! Bad luck but they all came back up.
Wait a minute! This post is mostly serious. That won't do. You're mother
wears army boots! (I feel better now).