Re: RAID 5 drive replacement schedule

Murda,
It means that the king didn't have the proper controls in place.

Regards,
Adriel T. Desautels
Chief Technology Officer
Netragard, LLC.
Office : 617-934-0269
Mobile : 617-633-3821
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/118/a45

Join the Netragard, LLC. Linked In Group:
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---------------------------------------------------------------
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Penetration Testing, Vulnerability Assessments, Website Security

Netragard Whitepaper Downloads:
-------------------------------
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Three Things you must know : http://tinyurl.com/26pjsn


Murda Mcloud wrote:
Now the calculations done by Robin Harris@CNET may be up for conjecture
here;

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=162

However, I found it to be thought provoking.

I know that this thread has become two threads in one but I'm glad I asked
the question and I'm glad I asked in the way I did because the ensuing
debate has been welcome on my part. Stimulates the little grey cells...
Thanks everyone.




-----Original Message-----
From: Rivest, Philippe [mailto:PRivest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:11 AM
To: Adriel Desautels
Cc: Murda Mcloud; security-basics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RAID 5 drive replacement schedule

I do think we are saying just about the same thing. But I may of not be
clear
so let me restate.

Raid 5 is an IT field & technologie, and adds to the security by making 1
failed drive NOT impact availability. That's all I meant. No decision or
security implication should be done before or after that (unless theres
an
incident). No security team should be implicated in the drive replacement
as
this is normal IT operation.

Raid 5 helps security in keeping the data accessible in the event of a
failed
drive.

Side note:
For my CAI is always security related and justified. Make it high or low
availability it is security and has to be justified.


Merci / Thanks
Philippe Rivest, CEH
Vérificateur interne en sécurité de l'information
Courriel: Privest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Téléphone: (514) 331-4417
www.transforce.ca


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Adriel Desautels [mailto:adriel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Envoyé : 20 juin 2008 14:00
À : Rivest, Philippe
Cc : Murda Mcloud; security-basics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : Re: RAID 5 drive replacement schedule

Philippe,
I disagree with you and I think that the definition of security
that
you provided is partial, but thats just my opinion. Availability is a
vague term that can, but does not always have a role in security.
Determining what the proper schedule is for a drive replacement policy
is something that can be done by IT without the security team. Deciding
how to dispose of the drives on the other hand is security.


Regards,
Adriel T. Desautels
Chief Technology Officer
Netragard, LLC.
Office : 617-934-0269
Mobile : 617-633-3821
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/118/a45

Join the Netragard, LLC. Linked In Group:
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/48683/0B98E1705142

---------------------------------------------------------------
Netragard, LLC - http://www.netragard.com - "We make IT Safe"
Penetration Testing, Vulnerability Assessments, Website Security

Netragard Whitepaper Downloads:
-------------------------------
Choosing the right provider : http://tinyurl.com/2ahk3j
Three Things you must know : http://tinyurl.com/26pjsn


Rivest, Philippe wrote:
Adriel & Murda

It is a security issue the way you store your data. In regards to the
raid
technologies, raid 5 improves the availability of the data by making
sure
that a single drive failed will not impact the availability of the
data.
Remember that security is
1- Confidentiality
2- Availability
3- Integrity

The main goal of a Raid 5 is to help #2. You are referring to the
disposal
of
the HD which is the issue of confidentiality and that is not what Murda
was
aiming at. If it is, go for encryption, degaussing, destruction and
just
plain format (if the data is not confidential).

As I explained to him offline, the MTTF and MTBF is about the same for
2 HD
bought/constructed at about the same time. How ever, those are not
absolute
numbers that state that, if one drive fails the other one is about to
go
too.
It's more an estimated value against which you should have some
confidence/hope, your drive should not fail before X hours (it could go
before but the average is X).

In a raid 5, Drive A, B and C are online and working (they are the same
drive
bought at the same time). Drive A fails, you should NOT change drive B
& C
unless they are failing also. If you do, the cost of your raid 5 will
be
greater then what it should be (the replacing of the parts are going to
cost
a lot). Change drive A and hope drives B & C will last longer.


The only issue is that 2 drives fail at the same time, which is very
improbable. And if it does, you should be going for your back ups.


I do hope this clarified the questions and that I wasn't to unclear
with my
details!

Merci / Thanks
Philippe Rivest, CEH
Vérificateur interne en sécurité de l'information
Courriel: Privest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Téléphone: (514) 331-4417
www.transforce.ca


-----Message d'origine-----
De : listbounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:listbounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
De
la
part de Adriel Desautels
Envoyé : 20 juin 2008 11:27
À : Murda Mcloud
Cc : security-basics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : Re: RAID 5 drive replacement schedule

Murda,
The real answer to your question is that it is very, very
improbable
that all of the drives in the array will fail at the same time. Most
drives are good for a certain period of years, after which point you
are
getting "extra time".

That is not a security issue though. That is an IT related issue.
The
security issue comes into play when you dispose of your drives. Do you
shred them, just throw them in the dumpster, how do you dispose of
them?

Regards,
Adriel T. Desautels
Chief Technology Officer
Netragard, LLC.
Office : 617-934-0269
Mobile : 617-633-3821
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/118/a45

Join the Netragard, LLC. Linked In Group:
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/48683/0B98E1705142

---------------------------------------------------------------
Netragard, LLC - http://www.netragard.com - "We make IT Safe"
Penetration Testing, Vulnerability Assessments, Website Security

Netragard Whitepaper Downloads:
-------------------------------
Choosing the right provider : http://tinyurl.com/2ahk3j
Three Things you must know : http://tinyurl.com/26pjsn


Murda Mcloud wrote:
In my mind, this a security related question as it has to do with
ensuring
availability.

Does anyone have links towards any whitepapers etc that suggest
replacement
of disks in a RAID 5 array as part of a maintenance cycle?

If all the drives in an array are the same age and one fails; does
this
mean
the others are more likely to fail. I'd imagine so as they have had
the
same
amount of usage.








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