RE: Re: chat logs

From: David (david_at_clicksee.net)
Date: 05/17/05

  • Next message: Beauford, Jason: "RE: Re: chat logs" 
    To: "'Stephen Alford'" <stephena@sbspros.net>, "'Melissa Fischer'" <Melissa.Fischer@NorthMemorial.com>, <security-basics@securityfocus.com>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:22:27 +0700

    I must disagree with this line from Ms. Fischer- 'if they are doing
    nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private".'

    How would you respond if your boss wanted to read your email and monitor
    the web sites you went to and read your IM's under the same philosophy?

    I love my wife and she loves me and we trust each other greatly and yet
    she still doesn't want to poop if I'm in the bathroom even though there
    is nothing 'wrong' going on. :) i.e. even children deserve some privacy.

    Choosing their friends and having relationships with those friends is
    part of growing up and learning to socialize and keeping total control
    over that will stagnate that process. Balance is the key word here I
    think and monitoring communications considered private is going to far
    just as having a child carry an electronic listening device would be
    going too far.

    I agree with Mihai's sentiment. How about the parents explain to the
    kids what the security situation is and go through the emails and chat
    logs together? Maybe even show the kids how to run searches using
    scripts and teach them some computer stuff?

    An interesting dilemma as to how far to go with things. I think it's a
    bit different with K-12 kids though. With a kindergartener, yeah, the
    parents should probably just go ahead and search through their files
    unasked. With a 12 year old that could really touch off a fire-storm.
    "Dad, how could you just totally violate my privacy like that?"

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stephen Alford [mailto:stephena@sbspros.net]
    Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:05 AM
    To: 'Melissa Fischer'; security-basics@securityfocus.com
    Subject: RE: Re: chat logs

    Melissa, Mihai, et al,
    I can see both sides, as a father of 3 teens and a sec pro. We all went
    thru our trials and tribulations as teens and I loved and related well
    with
    my parents. However, I certainly had moments I preferred keeping
    between me
    and my peers. I know there were experiences, real & virtual, that I
    didn't
    consider WRONG but still kept from my parents. Looking back on this
    with
    perspective, I can understand my kids need for privacy, and I also
    understand my parental need to ensure they are protected from
    inadvertently
    choosing BAD options. It is one of our greatest challenges to balance
    these
    needs appropriately.

    Thus, like any seasoned sec pro, make sure you assess the whole
    situation
    before applying your solution (and you DON'T NEED TO BE A PARENT TO
    FOLLOW
    THIS).

    My 2c worth.

    Stephen Alford, MCT, MCSE+Security, CCNA, CCDA, ASE
    Director, Partner Practices & Solutions, SBS Pros
    Email: stephena@sbspros.net

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Melissa Fischer [mailto:Melissa.Fischer@NorthMemorial.com]
    Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:50 AM
    To: security-basics@securityfocus.com
    Subject: Fwd: Re: chat logs

    FYI

    Melissa Fischer
    Database Administrator
    Data and System Engineering
    North Memorial Health Care
    763/520-1533
    melissa.fischer@northmemorial.com

    >>> Melissa Fischer 5/13/2005 10:49:39 AM >>>
    I understand your concern, apparently you must not be a parent.
    I have raised 3 sons, 24, 20 and now an 8 year old. Teenagers talk to
    EACH
    OTHER, not to their parents.
    Our parents HAVE personally talked to their children, looking at files
    on
    their computers is not taking away their privacy, if they are doing
    nothing
    wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private".

    Melissa Fischer
    Database Administrator
    Data and System Engineering
    North Memorial Health Care
    763/520-1533
    melissa.fischer@northmemorial.com

    >>> Mihai Amarandei <mihai@xmcopartners.com> 5/13/2005 9:45:28 AM >>>
    I'm glad too se everyone helping out to find the logs and giving advice
    on how to search those teen-agers web history.
    Just me(and this has nothing to do with security), but wouldn't it be
    better that each parent asked directly its children about such incidents

    instead of searching and digining through their logs and web history?
    I for one wouldn't like it that my parents knew all my browsing and
    chatting habbits, and I think this is the case for most of today's
    persons. Teens are as ,uch entitled to their privacy "apriori" as anyone

    else in my opinion.
    I know all I've said has not much to do with security (actually it has
    to do with privacy), but neither is searching for logs.
    I'm not trying to undermine the importance of the threat and the gravity

    of the situation, I just don't think such an intrusion of privacy would
    be a good answer.

    Mihai
    Blog: http://secinternship.blogspot.com

    Melissa Fischer wrote:

    >Our community, Waconia, Minnesota has recently been the victims of
    >threats against our children and schools.
    >http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5399090.html
    >
    >The Emergency Response Task Force assigned to our case asked parents to
    >go home and check their kids computers for any chats or emails with
    >information.
    >
    >We are trying to find a document explaining where and what to look at
    >to find any information. We would like to post this on our school main
    >page www.waconia.k12.mn.us for a resource for parents to use on how to
    >find any information. Can you tell me where to find this information?
    >
    >Thank you in advance,
    >
    >
    >
    >Melissa Fischer
    >Database Administrator
    >Data and System Engineering
    >North Memorial Health Care
    >763/520-1533
    >melissa.fischer@northmemorial.com
    >
    >
    > 

    -- 
Mihai Amarandei-Stavila - Xmco Partners
Consultant Sécurité / Test d'intrusion
tel  : 33 1 47 34 68 61
web  : http://www.xmcopartners.com 
Villa Gabrielle 75015 PARIS
  • Next message: Beauford, Jason: "RE: Re: chat logs"

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