RE: FW: Legal? Road Runner proactive scanning.[Scanned]

From: Bryan S. Sampsel (bsampsel_at_libertyactivist.org)
Date: 03/15/04

  • Next message: David Gillett: "RE: FW: Legal? Road Runner proactive scanning.[Scanned]" 
    Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:41:08 -0700 (MST)
To: security-basics@securityfocus.com

    Jef Feltman said:
    > So if someone comes and knocks on your door at home you shoot them? Do you
    > consider them a criminal? No, you lock the door and windows.

    Not quite an accurate comparison. A portscan is comparable to somebody
    testing those locks and windows. An action that has legal ramifications.
    And legally speaking, a tresspasser doesn't have to bypass a locked door
    to tresspass.

    A knock is a "service" -- a method of communicating with my house. As is
    a phone or mail. Just a tad different than a security probe.

    >
    > If your host is on the internet I consider it public and knocking on the
    > door to see if the shop is open, is not a problem. If you do not want
    > people
    > coming in the door lock it and give a key to those who need it.

    Still not an apples-apples. There are legit ways of communicating with my
    system.

    >
    > Based on your statement no website should not be accessed by anyone other
    > than an employee. Sending E-Mail would be a violation also, as the port
    > must
    > be checked to verify it can be opened to receive.

    Nope. Email performs a handshake, it does not probe an entire system to
    communicate. If it receives no response on its connection attempt, it
    ceases activity.

    >
    > Port scanning is not an attack it is probe. I have scanned many machines
    > that have tried to attack my machine trying to verify if it is an attack
    > or
    > the host has been compromised. Unless the attack is currently in progress,
    > the host is almost always taken over by a hacker or virus. Scanning the
    > host
    > allows me to find ports open that prove the host has been attacked and
    > taken
    > over. Then I am able to inform the ISP or user of the problem. And not go
    > after some innocent user.

    My IDS tells me who tried to attack/probe/portscan (pick one) and I inform
    the ISP or server owner (from WHOIS) and let them know the nature of the
    activity I'm seeing. I do not want to initiate the same type of activity
    against them, I want them to inspect and fix their problem. Blocking the
    attack is my business, inspecting and fixing it is theirs.

    <snipped for brevity>

    bryan

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  • Next message: David Gillett: "RE: FW: Legal? Road Runner proactive scanning.[Scanned]"

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