Re: CEH Books

Thanks Michelle,

Before starting the OSCP course I my ability to perform many of the
tasks in penetration tests was very limited. The OSCP course, for me,
has a great method of presentation for learning, but not elementary
enough that someone with experience might get bored (can't really say

For example in the buffer overflow section he goes over writing
overflows and really gets into the nitty gritty with debuggers,
locating memory addresses. You see how to find the bug, write the
overflow, and exploit the machine. He doesn't however go so basic
that he explains endianness or actually explaining the background of
buffer overflows it is up to you to research a number of topics.

On top of the training you have access to a VPN lab (if you get the
package) to test these tasks out. Just a note, the cost of the
training is changing on the 1st of September and I can only assume it
is increasing.

Here is a demo of the training from the site.

On 8/27/07, Michelle Duff <mduff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Good luck with the job search, Peter - would love to hear how it turns out
for you.

Thanks for the OSCP info -- I'd heard of it, but didn't know what the
training was like - good to get the skinny on a course.

I took the CEH course from InfoSec Institute - it was a bootcamp thing.
Typical bootcamp mode of learning - quick & dirty.
We did do capture the flag stuff which was lots of fun, but it always came
at the end of a 11 hour day of studies geared towards getting us to pass the
CEH exam. Now I'm home playing w/ the VMware environment trying to recreate
similar capture the flag sessions.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Manis" <manis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Michelle Duff" <mduff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Jay" <jay.tomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <pen-test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: CEH Books

I agree as well, which is one reason I picked the OSCP before the CEH.
To pass the OSCP I need to actually perform an attack on a machine.
Of course this is not equal to real world experience, but as a start
towards moving to security I felt HR may look at my resume and have
interest in hiring me as an entry level tester because I have proven I
can apply the knowledge I have learned vs just memorizing nmap
switches and port numbers (not that the exam doesn't cover more).

When I watched a few videos of CEH and read through the material on
the exam it seemed the CEH was more like the first few classes at med
school (from what I've heard), you have to memorize a bunch of names,
functions, and instruments, but it isn't until later that you get to
break out the tools and apply that knowledge.

- Pete

On 8/27/07, Michelle Duff <mduff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Excellent point, Jay.

I agree whole-heartedly -- having gotten a number of certs in my career:
CISSP, CCNP, MCSE and not enough hands-on led to my being viewed w/
contempt by those who knew their stuff & didn't necessarily have the
certs -
I was a 'poser' - it stinks to be viewed that way.

You must have the hands-on -- read, study, test -- all good. But you must
this stuff - touch it, do it, think it or you'll get the same treatment I

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay [mailto:jay.tomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:12 AM
To: mduff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; manis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
Subject: RE: CEH Books

<rant> If you could learn to hack/assess from reading a book everyone
do it. Does a carpenter go get a book to learn to swing a hammer.?No he
out and does it and probably smashes a few knuckles in the process.The
important part of hacking/assessing is opening your mind see where it
There is a million ways to check for XSS, CSRF etc. You have to be
determined and flexlible. Try things even though it shouldn't work.

e.g I was looking for XSS in a input field. Tried all the normal stale
"><script>alert('XSS')</script> type syntax. - nadda.

Only after I padded it with 20 null characters (%00) on each side it did

Reading should give you 'ideas' after that its up to you.

CEH is a baseline like most certs. It says I sat through a week of
and then I took a multiple choice test. May mean I know my stuff and want
documnt it to an extent. Or I May be good at tests and dont know sh@t


----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Duff [mailto:mduff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
To: manis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,pen-test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:01:23 -0400
Subject: RE: CEH Books

Peter -

Sorry, I haven't read those books...when I can't find anyone who's read a
study book, I'll check out the reviews on - granted, the
reviewers may not always have a clue, but the more the book is reviewed I
can get an idea if it's what I need & if it's any good... I've had good
results w/ this method.

Amazon readers gave Michael Graves' Exam Prep book a good review:

Amazon readers also gave Kimberly Graves' Review Guide good marks:

Hopefully, someone here has read the books and can comment on them.

Good luck!


-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:listbounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Behalf Of Peter Manis
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:09 PM
To: pen-test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: CEH Books

I found two CEH books on Alibris and I was wondering if anyone had
experience with either.

Certified Ethical Hacker: Exam 312-50
by Michael Gregg

CEH: Official Certified Ethical Hacker Review Guide
by Kimbery Graves


- Pete

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Need to secure your web apps NOW?
Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast.
Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today!