Re: Handling Sysads resignation/termination

From: Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] (sbradcpa_at_pacbell.net)
Date: 08/03/05

  • Next message: Thor (Hammer of God): "Re: Oracle Auditing" 
    Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:13:48 -0700
To: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@hammerofgod.com>

    "Oh but to flatten and nuke we'd need better backups. We can't do
    that." is the response you'd get then. But indeed that would be the
    only way.

    I'm nuking a workstation.. a mere workstation after a malware
    infestation and you'd think I was commiting a cardinal sin or
    something. 'What? You want to flatten it?

    Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:

    > Inline:
    >
    > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS
    > Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
    > To: "Irvin Temp" <znah_irvin@yahoo.com>
    > Cc: <pen-test@securityfocus.com>
    > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 5:39 PM
    > Subject: Re: Handling Sysads resignation/termination
    >
    >
    >> What's he going to do? Say yes? Then what?
    >>
    >>
    >> Anyone else besides me thinking of a employment leaving documentation
    >> poured over by Attorneys where he/she has to sign something to the
    >> effect?
    >
    >
    > That won't do any good... For one, the admin is out-- what is the
    > consequence of saying "no" to signing the document? And what if he
    > does sign it? How can the company prove, even in the existence of
    > some Trojan, that the exiting admin is responsible for its presence?
    > Setting up a "fall guy for a failing business" is as likely as
    > "malicious actions of an exiting admin" in the eyes of the law (when
    > represented by competent council). In fact, "duress" in this case
    > could be very easily substantiated (if you said something like he had
    > to sign to get his last check, etc.)
    >
    >> I wouldn't want you to certify that ....that's asking a bit much on
    >> your part I think. I think you, your HR department and your firm's
    >> Attorneys need to sit down and discuss an action plan.
    >>
    >> Normally for anyone who isn't a sysadmin the termination process
    >> involved revoking accounts, keys, devices, changing locks etc etc...
    >
    >
    > It's really a moot point-- for it simply cannot be "certified" to
    > begin with. It is totally impossible to certify what he did or didn't
    > do. If concern is there, the only real way of gaining any secure
    > posture is to nuke the entire network and rebuild it. And that only
    > addresses the technical aspects of it: if I left Anchor today, and
    > they totally rebuilt everything to protect against me, I could call
    > any one of dozens of people and ask them for their username and
    > password and they would give it to me.
    >
    > You can't protect yourself against the actions of one in a trusted
    > position if they choose to break the law. You have but the law to
    > protect you once the breech of trust has taken place.
    >
    >>
    >> Check out Steve Riley on this topic...
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> Do you trust your administrators? That seemingly innocent question
    >> creates a serious dilemma in the minds of a lot of people. While we
    >> all know what we’d /like/ the answer to be, the disappointing fact
    >> is that, increasingly, the true answer is the opposite. This became
    >> apparent in discussions I had with many attendees at TechEd US in
    >> May—there is genuine concern about the trustworthiness of
    >> administrators...
    >
    >
    > I've worked with Steve before, and I like him. Pretty damn smart
    > dude. But his opinion piece here is a bit hyperbolic. The story of
    > the logic bomb paints a vivid picture of anxious exposure, but if the
    > guy is going to plant a logic bomb, he could also plant a real bomb.
    > You know, the "boom" kind.
    >
    > While the advise of background checking and least privilege is
    > valuable, it is also a bit obvious. It all comes down to the cost of
    > doing business, and the level at which you must trust someone in order
    > for that business to be conducted. You can spend a million dollars a
    > year in background checks, threat level testing and physiological
    > profiling, but it doesn't matter that much when some vendor's cleaning
    > crew has the same physical access as your admin. Case at point: We
    > had to fire an employee who had access to our operational systems (as
    > his job required.) The termination wasn't pretty, as he turned out to
    > be a bit freaky. A few months later, we had physical issues with our
    > ADT alarm system that required on-site service. Guess who showed up
    > to fix them?
    >
    > This is not a tech issue. It is a people issue, and as long as people
    > trust other people, it always will be. Of course there are extreme
    > examples of distributed trust models that work (a sysop in a nuke sub,
    > for example) but in the "real world" where we all live, my experience
    > is that any measure of real value taken to mitigate the risk
    > associated with the threat of a malicious admin's actions ends up
    > costing more than the resource we seek to protect in the first place.
    > Otherwise, the merit of the asset's value would have dictated that
    > measures already be in place when the dude was initially hired.
    >
    > This is just another example of an "oh ***, what do we do now?"
    > question that was asked too late.
    >
    > t
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

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