RE: Bank Assessment

From: Chuck Herrin (me_at_chuckherrin.com)
Date: 04/23/04

  • Next message: James Williams: "RE: Bank Assessment" 
    To: "'Amit Deshmukh'" <amit_deshmukh@bridgepoint.com.au>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:07:02 -0400

     
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    That's a great question. I'll be interested to see what everyone
    else comes back with.

    <Foundation Definitions> I don't use "Pen Test" and "Vulnerability
    Assessment" interchangeably, as these are 2 different services and
    vary in scope.

    My 2 cents is: it depends 100% on what the client wants. In my
    experience, many clients want the results of a Pen Test to be a
    "scare tactic" or "fundraiser" to get Senior Management's attention
    and get more funding. Many clients want the results of a
    Vulnerability Assessment to be a "pat on the back", and just want the
    results of a CyberCop or ISS scan showing that they're OK. Others
    really want to know how secure they are, and some just want to guard
    against the Script Kiddies out there.

    Fewer companies want (or in the case of the small firms, can afford)
    a true Pen Test, which includes Social Engineering, Wardriving,
    Physical Access attempts, password cracking, etc.

    I have found the OSSTMM to be a great tool, but it doesn't quite map
    to smaller organizations and their budgets. I would suggest that
    your Salespeople try to (tactfully) ferret out what EXACTLY the
    clients are looking for, and then pull the relevant tests from the
    OSSTMM. Of course, you can always follow the standard steps, and
    charge based on the amount of time the client would like you to spend
    on each part:

    Footprinting (2 hours)
    Gentle scanning (2 hours)
    Less-gentle scanning (4 hours)
    ELECTIVES: Going around the firewall:
    Social Engineering (4 hours)
    Wardialing (4 hours)
    Wardriving (1 hour)
    Exploit research (4 hours)

    Etc. based on what they want. **Note that these times are SAMPLES
    that will vary, especially for small clients - NO FLAMES on how lame
    it is to only spend 2 hours footprinting, etc. please ;-)**

    Hope this helps, and I look forward to what all you 31337 H4x0rs out
    there have to say on the subject.

    Chuck Herrin, CISSP, MCSE, CEH
    www.chuckherrin.com

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Amit Deshmukh [mailto:amit_deshmukh@bridgepoint.com.au]
    Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:57 PM
    To: pen-test@securityfocus.com
    Cc: c0d3r@cotse.net
    Subject: RE: Bank Assessment

    Hi all!

    I'm new to this list and this is my first post! While we are still on
    the discussion of standards, would anyone know of a simple risk
    assessment methodology that could be employed for small to medium
    businesses?

    I'm stuck with the problem that its quite expensive to do an
    extensive risk assessment for small firms to identify their threats
    and carry out pen tests on the basis of those threats. So we have
    quoted a fixed number of days based on gut instinct. However, in such
    a scenario it is difficult to identify the extent to which one
    pen-test!

    Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

    Amit
     
    - -----Original Message-----
    From: c0d3r@cotse.net [mailto:c0d3r@cotse.net]
    Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 11:23 AM
    To: Blake Wiedman
    Cc: 'Joe Smith'; pen-test@securityfocus.com
    Subject: RE: Bank Assessment

    Hi all;

    Not to cast any dispersions on anything, but IMHO, the FFIEC
    guidelines are pretty lame. They're OK for "management and
    operational" type reviews, but they just don't cut it for technical
    work. I'd look to a more solid technical standard, like nsa.gov,
    nist.gov, or OSSTMM Ver. 2. Those are the things that I use for
    (almost
    exclusively) banks. We've developed custom testing programs using
    these as standards.

    c0d3r

    > You can find the answers to most of your questions including
    guidelines
    > here http://www.ffiec.gov/
    >
    > My employer uses the guidelines as the basis for all of our banking
    > clients.
    >
    >
    > Blake Wiedman
    > Security Technician
    > Icons Inc.
    > www.iconsinc.com
    > 732.309.6038
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Joe Smith [mailto:joey@r00t66.com]
    > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:40 PM
    > To: pen-test@securityfocus.com
    > Subject: Bank Assessment
    >
    >
    > I'm looking for any good links with regard to Banking
    > Institutions.. Security assessments, pen-testing, special needs
    > etc. I know they
    are
    > big on policies and procedures.
    >
    >
    >
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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. Mention this ad and get $545 off
    any course! All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 10 students or less
    to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors.
    Attend a course taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field
    pen testing experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills
    of an Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.
    Visit us at:
    http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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