firewall appliance help

From: HA LO (halo7@onebox.com)
Date: 11/19/01 

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:59:46 -0800
Subject: firewall appliance help
From: "HA LO" <halo7@onebox.com>
To: <pen-test@securityfocus.com>
Message-Id: <20011119205946.SLOT29423.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com>

I am pretty much a newbie to actual pentesting but not a newbie to networking.
I have been lurking on this list a while trying to learn as much as I
can. So here is what I need a little help with.

I am trying to communicate/scan with a computer behind one of those firewall/router
appliances. When I've done an Ack scan it shows that all ports are unfiltered,
but all other scans show the ports as being filtered, so I think it is
a packet filter and is not stateful. It probably is also performing
NAT. How can I determine what hosts are live on the internal network
and how would I be able to establish any communication with them.

What kind of swithes with nmap would I be able to use to determine live
hosts behind such a router, and then once I can determine what hosts
are up what kind of tools can I use to actually try and test/penetrate
such a host through the firewall.

Sorry to take up your time with such a newbie question but Ive searched
the archives and didnt really come up with a specific solution. Links
or just a push in the right direction would be really appreciated, I'll
do the research from there. Thanks.

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