Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation

From: Greg Barnes (greg@ins.com)
Date: 12/30/02

  • Next message: Greg Barnes: "Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation" 
    Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:06:35 -0600
From: Greg Barnes <greg@ins.com>
To: "Jay D. Dyson" <jdyson@treachery.net>

    Hi Jay,

    Comments inline...

    Saturday, December 28, 2002, 12:51:09 AM, you wrote:
    JDD> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    JDD> Hash: SHA1

    JDD> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Stephen P. Berry wrote:

    >> Funny that everyone seems to be hung up on the question of whether or
    >> not reciprocal scans are -legal-. Howzabout this one: Even if scanning
    >> spam relays is -legal-, is it ethical?

    JDD> Such a practice strikes me as teleologically ethical[1]. A system

    Technologically Ethical? Is that like 'technically
    honest' but not honest by any other definition?

    JDD> is being abused and we recipient systems are paying the canonical price
    JDD> for it. And since we bear the cost of someone else's irresponsibility, we
    JDD> have both the right and the responsibility to pick up the slack created by
    JDD> the other party so that other systems do not receive the same net.abuse
    JDD> ours have.

    This would be true if you represented an extension of
    law enforcement.

    JDD> The only thing that would color such a practice as even remotely
    JDD> unethical would be later utilization of such findings for the purpose of
    JDD> further spamming or other nefarious conduct.

    Who defines nefarious? The rule of law defines it.
    And there are agencies established for the purpose
    of enforcing the law. I can't believe this is even
    a question here...

    JDD> As a rule, when my systems are spammed via an open relay, I do
    JDD> indeed perform open relay tests on the offending system to confirm that
    JDD> the relayed spam is genuine or trivially spoofed[2]. With those findings,

    So how does one justify any scanning beyond that
    which is required to determine the source
    of a problem in the course of one's day to day duties,
    and furthermore with the end goal of notifying the
    cognizant authority of the offense?

    JDD> I file my reports with the cognizant admins and/or upstream providers so
    JDD> that an end may be put to that nonsense.

    All well and good, but again - to what end, the additional scanning?

    JDD> - -Jay

    JDD> 1. I don't subscribe to deontological ethics. Even when I was a lad I
    JDD> never regarded "because I said so" as a valid rationale for anything.
    JDD> 2. Old Sun Microsystems SMI 8.6 MTAs will accept any HELO statement and
    JDD> not log the IP, which caused all manner of spammer mischief.

    JDD> ( ( _______
    JDD> )) )) .-"There's always time for a good cup of coffee."-. >====<--.
    JDD> C|~~|C|~~| (>------ Jay D. Dyson - jdyson@treachery.net ------<) | = |-'
    JDD> `--' `--' `How about a 10-day waiting period on YOUR rights?' `------'

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    JDD> Comment: See http://www.treachery.net/~jdyson/ for current keys.

    JDD> iD8DBQE+DUniTqL/+mXtpucRApOlAKDFuMLEvKwX11Toknd0hSFxImXJ/gCeOl1a
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    JDD> =Y1yR
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    -

    Regards,

    Greg

    PGP Fingerprint:
    723E 7CAD 4EF5 D904 1EE8 5279 71A5 A594 E6A7 C48E

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    Relevant Pages

    • Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation
      ... Teleological ethics holds that all ethical proscriptions arise from value ... > JDD> price for it. ... Law enforcement cannot do so without the blessing of the courts. ... > JDD> indeed perform open relay tests on the offending system to confirm ...
      (Incidents)
    • Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation
      ... BTW - HUGE thanks for the clarification on ethics. ... JDD> teleological. ... JDD> Law enforcement cannot do so without the blessing of the courts. ... JDD> offending system. ...
      (Incidents)