Re: Impact of removing administrative rights in an enterprise running XP



You can easily install patches without admin rights... the key here is 'management' of a network.

WSUS can push out patches and the workstations do not need admin rights.

Installing of software needs rights.. but there are ways to group policy deploy software and do this.

The reality is that line of business apps blew off Microsoft on non admin.. they didn't need to follow the XP logo (that requires the supportability of non admin) because WE the marketplace didn't care. The code design for many of these applications have not changed since Win9x.

Yes, there are success stories, but it's totally dependent on a managed network.

IT admins have to relearn how to do tasks... learn group policy...learn scripting... learn how deploy software across a network.... That's the key... we have to learn how to do our jobs in a managed network.

Dick Venema wrote:

Is it not supposed to be an protection measure against any virus and spyware.

We are supporting networks with around 10 users.
If I understand it well enough, it is impossible to manage pc's without direct admin rights.

The most isseus are with installing applications. I tought that Microsoft and with them many other people almost ordered everybody to get rid of those admin rights.

But from the reactions I hear, everybody complains. Are there success stories?

Dick Venema
Venema Advies



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "Robert D. Holtz" <robert.d.holtz@xxxxxxxxx>
Aan: "'McLaurin, Timothy'" <tMcLaurin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "'Jon R. Kibler'" <Jon.Kibler@xxxxxxxx>; "focus-ms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <focus-ms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: "'Drew Simonis'" <simonis@xxxxxxxxxx>
Verzonden: 28-7-06 15:37
Onderwerp: RE: Impact of removing administrative rights in an enterprise running XP

I was involved in ~1,500 users and it also was an amazing exercise in
futility. The previous paragraph was on the money.

It really bit us hard when we had a virus infestation and the patch from
Microsoft needed the user to have admin rights in order to fix the problem.


-----Original Message-----
From: McLaurin, Timothy [mailto:tMcLaurin@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 3:50 PM
To: Jon R. Kibler; focus-ms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Drew Simonis
Subject: RE: Impact of removing administrative rights in an enterprise
running XP

I've done it for about 2,000 users and it was brutal. The technical
aspects of it was bad but even worse were the political. People can't
get used to the idea of not being able to do what they want when they
want. Especially the executive types. And we still gave them admin
accounts, they just had to use Run As... Support isn't all that easy
too because we had no idea who had what, and what was essential for
their job function. There are all kinds of stupid applications that
call for admin rights and once they are taken away it doesn't work
anymore. Filemon, Regmon, and SetACL were a staple during that time
period.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon R. Kibler [mailto:Jon.Kibler@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:09 AM
To: focus-ms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Drew Simonis
Subject: Re: Impact of removing administrative rights in an enterprise
running XP

Drew Simonis wrote:


Hello all,
I wonder if anyone on the list who might work for a good sized


enterprise (10,000+ seats) has gone through the excercise of removing
administrative rights from the user community?


Aside from the effort to inventory all applications and ensure that


they work with restricted permissions, I forsee that such an effort
would likely require changes to the entire support model. Instead of
relying on users to install their own software, it would need to be done
for them. New hardware would require intevention, etc.


If someone has completed this, was support a major new burden, or was


it not as difficult as it might be? If it was, how much of a burden was
it (+ desktop support headcount? +helpdesk calls?)?


-Ds



Drew,

Have not done it in as large of an organization as you indicate, but
have TRIED to do it in smaller organizations -- and ran into MANY brick
walls. It is still a work-in-progress! Things are better, but we're not
there yet by any stretch at any organization that I am working with.

The primary issue is that A LOT of applications assume/require
administrative privilege to work. In reality, you can probably get
many/most to run with less than admin priv, but figuring out what is the
minimum required is not an easy task. And don't expect the application
vendor to be any help either!

Trying to remove local admin priv is a trial-and-error process. A lot of
apps will work most of the time, then one seldom-used feature breaks it.

You would be surprised the apps that require privilege to run... many
big name ones, such as the Intuit product line. There was a discussion
on DShield a few months back on this topic, and several people named
names of applications with privilege problems (but nothing close to
scratching the surface!).

Good luck.

Oh, BTW, as you try this task, publishing a list of the required minimum
privilege for each application would be a great help to everyone. I
wanted to do that, but my clients all objected.

Jon



--
Letting your vendors set your risk analysis these days? http://www.threatcode.com

If you are a SBSer and you don't subscribe to the SBS Blog... man ... I will hunt you down...
http://blogs.technet.com/sbs


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Relevant Pages

  • RE: Office tries to repair/reinstall
    ... Giving admin rights to everyone is not the solution. ... The file association issue should be also related to the Office 2007 installation. ... I will check the registry and install windows installer. ...
    (microsoft.public.office.setup)
  • Re: Granting all users Admin Rights
    ... I am a Network Admin for Cuesta College and we are dealing with the same ... Techs to go to install every little piece of software on users computers. ... I believe that giving users Power Users rights is the best way ...
    (microsoft.public.win2000.security)
  • RE: [Full-Disclosure] DCOM RPC exploit (dcom.c)
    ... I am a Techie Admin who is in management. ... the product, source it, install it, fix it, Admin it, everything except ... Then they had to retrofit the network. ... best work on our network and the purchased the right equipment, ...
    (Full-Disclosure)
  • Re: Hierarchical PDF-printing with Mentor "IC Station Schematics"?
    ... be saying that the network admin knows more about my job than I do. ... you can be a dumbass... ... An IT support type that cannot install ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Printer Problems
    ... he had the user rights to disable ... (default install behavior on xp), and it failed because DeskJet needs it ... If you create another admin on that system, you could see the problem again, ... > I manage a small network at a downtown Denver hotel. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)