RE: Group Policy: multiple password policies in the same domain?

From: Derick Anderson (
Date: 09/02/05

  • Next message: Sebastian Zdrojewski: "R: Active Directory password external use"
    Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:42:22 -0400
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    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Derick Anderson []
    > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:32 PM
    > To:
    > Subject: RE: Group Policy: multiple password policies in the
    > same domain?
    > Why two policies?
    > I have single domain that contains both end users and
    > mission-critical service accounts, and our company must be
    > SAS70 type-II certified. So the auditors come and say, "You
    > must have secure password policies."
    > This amounts to (in our case) at least 8 character passwords,
    > a maximum age of 90 days, complexity requirements, a lockout
    > policy of 5 attempts with infinite lockout, and a 1 day
    > period between failed attempt count resets. When I first came
    > the minimum length was 7 characters. The day I upped it to 8
    > you should have heard all the crying.
    > [Brady]
    > Let them cry. They'll get used to it. We had the same
    > issue, but stick to your guns and they'll stop complaining.
    > People only complain when they learn it will get them what
    > they want. Plus if you are required to have 8 character
    > passwords, what can you do about it? It must be that way.
    > [End Brady]

    The best thing about the SAS70 audit is getting to blame someone else
    for doing things right. =) I've had similar issues with developers who
    thought they needed full control in the production database. It's always
    handy to say, "If we don't we won't pass our audit" when the idea of
    role separation doesn't quite get through to them. Also the CIO backs me
    up 95% of the time...

    My concern is that they'll start writing the passwords down. I've tried
    educating them about passphrases (which I use to create 20+ character
    passwords for critical accounts) but only a few of them have been able
    to make the switch. There seems to be some mental block about how long
    the password is, even though passphrases are easier to remember because
    of memory chunking.

    > I consider 8 characters the bare minimum for a secure account
    > password.
    > Unfortunately our users cannot fathom security and while I
    > personally use passphrases that exceed 20 characters I doubt
    > very much that I could ever get the whole company past 10 and
    > then I'd spend all my mornings unlocking accounts or
    > resetting forgotten passwords.
    > The second issue is the lockout policy and password age - if
    > you are only going to require 8 characters you'd better have
    > some sort of lockout policy, in my opinion. However, when a
    > mission-critical system runs as a domain service account, and
    > a developer tries to use that same account for "debugging"
    > (.NET machine config for the uninitiated) and uses the wrong
    > password, it locks out the service account and DoSes the
    > system. Clearly a security risk from an availability standpoint.
    > [Brady]
    > Why would a developer have access to mission-critical domain
    > service account? If he needs access, give him a separate
    > account with the same permissions if necessary.
    > [End Brady]

    The developer didn't have access to the account, but did have access to
    try and use it (because we've got one domain). 5 tries later our
    production system went down. In fact, the developer didn't even need to
    use that account, just thought that he did.

    > So the dilemma is that I need shorter passwords with tighter lockout
    > policies for users, and longer passwords with no lockout policies for
    > service accounts, and I have to be able to demonstrate that
    > the password
    > policy is in effect to the auditors. I can make the service account
    > passwords as long as I want, but unless it can be proven that this is
    > the case, we don't pass the audit next time around.
    > [Brady]
    > You don't need shorter passwords. You need to tell your users the
    > company is required to have at least 8 character passwords,
    > and if they
    > don't like, tough, there is nothing you can do about it. And you need
    > to not let anyone use your service accounts.
    > [End Brady]

    When I said "shorter" I meant 8 characters plus. For me, a normal-sized
    password is at least 12 completely random characters or 20+ for a
    passphrase. Again, with the service accounts, no one can use them but
    the password policy allows them to be locked out if people try. I want
    the lockout policy for our users, just not the service accounts.




  • Next message: Sebastian Zdrojewski: "R: Active Directory password external use"