Re: IDS causing troubles

On Feb 18, 2011, at 9:49 AM, Curt Purdy wrote:

Did not realize you were with Sourcefire Joel, would not have been so
'harsh' in my comments. Give my regards to Martin.

It's not a problem, don't take it like that, I just view it as important to education those that may not be aware of the terminology that is in play.

FWIW, it was Snort that forced me to create the world's first SIM in
2000, when I could not stand the false positives, and decided to put
all my servers in the top 128 of a class A and nothing but honeypots
in the bottom 128 and only monitor it. Every time I got an alert, I
knew I had bagged a cracker.

This is STILL an effective method against scanners and scripts. However, unfortunately, most of the attacks have turned client side now, and the game has changed.



On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Joel Esler <joel.esler@xxxxxx> wrote:
Fair enough, (and I doubt I'm too young), however, back then, there was no difference. There is now.

When ISS RealSecure first starting coming out with the technology of sending RST packets, I remember people called it IPS back then too. When tools that auto-blocked at firewalls started coming out, they called it IPS, when IPS without a failopen came along, people called it an IPS. However, if we look at the landscape now, I argue that it's different and we wouldn't call IPS the same thing anymore. Which is why I didn't.

I think it's important to understand not only where we've been, but where we are, and where we are going. I work in the IPS industry (Sourcefire) as I am sure many others on this list do as well, and it's important (at least to me) that people understand the distinction. I get the reaction all the time that "IPS doesn't work, because all it does is send RST packets", which in fact IPS is now a very mature technology.

I think it's important to understand the difference in the technologies. Not everyone on the list has "been there and done that". The beauty part about a list like this is it brings the seasoned and the new together in a common environment where the above can be discussed.


On Feb 18, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Curt Purdy wrote:

If this were a literary list, we could argue semantics till the cows
come home Joel. But being an information security list let's stick to
technology. You may be too young to remember the very first Intrusion
'Protection' System that was not in-line at all. It was simply an IDS
that added ACLs to the firewall to block the grievous party. Everyone
accepted the developer's term 'IPS'.


Joel Esler

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