Re: [Full-disclosure] VML Exploit vs. AV/IPS/IDS signatures

Hi Aviv/Pukhraj & others:
As a security professional and researchers, our aim is to provide
more in-depth information on intrusion (security) aspects, for
example, some virus out-break, new windows vulnerability etc. Aviv is
right by saying that signatures should match the vulnerability, not
the exploits. Signature writing is a very responsible task and, of
course, technical too. But unfortunately, there are not many people,
who have required knowledge ( i m talking in context to india). but
companies need people with the requirement of writing signatures. So,
in this process, so called security professional start looking at
exploits and write signatures (just to mention, I have seen few snort
signatures that match "Shellcode part"!!!) . As Pukharaj mentioned
that there are not many variants found in the wild, such signatures
work and company and hired-security-professionals are happy. I have
heard ( I am not sure whether it is really true) that few products (I
don't even know the name!!) are simply dependent on open sources
(like Snort or bleeding snort or nessus!!!!) for signatures. To
overcome this (pathetic) situation, the solution, being suggested by
Pukhraj makes sense i.e. collect as much exploits as possible and
then try to analyze them and write signature. Here I want to add one
thing that once we have a number of exploits, we should, at least
now, try to understand the vulnerability based on the information
present in all the exploits and try to come out with a common
signature (or a common set of signatures).


At 11:07 AM 9/28/2006, Pukhraj Singh wrote:
And you tell me how many of these variants you will actually find in
the wild. Won't be a significant number I bet.


On 9/27/06, avivra <avivra@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

i.e. I can't afford to buy "specialized" security tools/devices for
"speclialized" attacks unless my company relies heavily on web/content

So, you will buy "specialized" security tools like firewall or
Anti-Virus, but not web content filtering tool?

In our company, we established a information-sharing
network with other security companies. So the real-time exploit-facing
signatures were then subjected to live traffic, honeypots and countless
variants; They seemed to work out pretty well.

I would like to see how your real-time signatures get updated with the
randomization implemented in the new VML metasploit module. Your
"countless" exploit variants will become really innumerable.

The problem is that the signatures are written for the exploit, and
not for the vulnerability.

-- Aviv.

Sanjay Rawat
Security Research Engineer
INTOTO Software (India) Private Limited
Uma Plaza, Nagarjuna Hills
PunjaGutta,Hyderabad 500082 | India
Office: + 91 40 23358927/28 Extn 424
Website :
Computer Security: A little delay to break into your network.
-- DSR

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