Re: [Full-Disclosure] Professional Groups

From: Lan Guy (rlanguy_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 01/13/04

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    To: "Daniel Sichel" <daniels@Ponderosatel.com>, <full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:54:49 +0200

    Have you considered the disbenefit of such a move. Your employer could end
    up having to pay you less. Force you into a group life savings plan (saving
    the employer money). Force your employer to decide your HMO.

    What I think you really mean is that we need an indepentent testing
    mechanism, that is not vendor baised, that can judge by a persons knowledge,
    education and experience.
    But we already have that:
    http://www.sans.org/
    http://www.comptia.org/default.asp

    Just look around
    Lan Guy

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Daniel Sichel" <daniels@Ponderosatel.com>
    To: <full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com>
    Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:31 PM
    Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Professional Groups

    > > It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking like
    > > adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing with
    > > computers is fine, but not enough.
    >
    > >Agreed. And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure out
    >
    > >how to approach the problem. Unfortunately, every solution I can come
    > >up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't want to
    > >be confused with facts . . . ;>
    >
    > This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a union.
    > Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that has the
    > cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft). If we
    > had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing
    > software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got hurt
    > by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for the
    > priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech
    > support to be ratcheted up where they belong.
    >
    > Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their picket
    > lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are
    > available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall
    > administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket lines,
    > that wouldn't hurt a bit.
    >
    > Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where tech
    > professionals are even more exploited than here.
    >
    > But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-pooh
    > the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for us
    > could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors. We
    > could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and
    > requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people. We
    > could institute apprenticeships so we have a supply of people who are
    > more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs.
    >
    > I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays more
    > than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs us
    > up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed
    > software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule. It is
    > also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows
    > through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from
    > before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed at
    > our jobs, we need a union. Period.
    >
    >
    > Dan Sichel, Network Engineer
    > Ponderosa Telephone Company
    > (559) 868-6367
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
    > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
    >

    _______________________________________________
    Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
    Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html

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