Re: [fw-wiz] The home user problem returns

From: Chris Blask (chris_at_blask.org)
Date: 09/13/05

  • Next message: Brian Loe: "RE: [fw-wiz] The home user problem returns" 
    To: Mason Schmitt <mason@schmitt.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:00:31 -0400

    At 03:59 PM 9/12/2005, Mason Schmitt wrote:
    .d.
    >Are my ideas ill-conceived?

    no no, that was a general comment about Marcus being right (don't
    tell him I said that!)... ;~)

    >What specifically do you think is bull***? Or is it just my approach
    >in general? The better I understand this problem the better off I'm
    >going to be.

    Wrong tack. My comment was not in opposition to your comments, but
    in something akin to agreement.

    > > That right there is my point. The quantity of exposure that the average
    > > Joe needs to understand the issues being discussed is "N", where N is a
    > > very large number (particularly if Joe is 50+). We are currently about
    > > 1/N into the process...
    >
    >I disagree. I don't think that N need be that large. Even now with the
    >huge mess we have, N is manageable if it is presented properly and
    >*people want to listen*. N can be reduced considerably if those
    >providing PCs, network access, etc can improve the security of their
    >offerings. This of course being a much longer term look at the problem.

    N is a large number, but Joe is exposed to bits and pieces of it all
    the time, and they are additive. The level of dumb-ass computer
    question I get from the least capable has risen dramatically over the
    last ten years - I take that as a good sign.

    The lumpiness we experience in the educational levels of all the Joes
    and Josies out there frustrates the crap out of a lot of people in a
    very deep and personal way, because they suffer from it. Like so
    many things, I find myself on the fence: I understand and share the
    general frustrations - and Bad Things can still easily happen - but I
    think diligence on the part of those of us here and our ilk will
    continue to pay off. We will reach a utility model but I don't
    expect to see it in my working career, so paranoia remains well founded.

    >Here are two ways of looking at N. The first one applies to the present
    >state of things, the second is longer term.
    >
    >N in a positive reinforcement scenario (short term)
    >----------------------------------------------------
    >If as a group, we like to preach least privilege, why do we keep trying
    >to tell home users what they _shouldn't_ be doing? That sounds like
    >default allow. Why not tell them what they should be doing? It's going
    >to be a much shorter list.

    "Make things as simple as possible but no simpler. "? :~)

    >N as seen from within a mature utility model (long term)
    >---------------------------------------------------------
    >Here's another way of looking at the long term size of N. In one of the
    >emails in this thread, someone mentioned that Internet access should be
    >like a utility. I'd like to take that analogy (because that's what it
    >is) and expand upon it.

    .d. nice "Internet as Utility" bit

    >Getting back to computers and the Internet... If these sorts of controls
    >and industry maturity were in place, home users wouldn't be such a
    >problem. The big problem is that the Internet right now is very much
    >like the "Wild West" - it's young, immature, un-controlled and much
    >about how it should work is still unknown. It just needs to mature.

    The problem we are dealing with is that many consumers do not
    understand what electricity is or why they should expect their razor
    to shave their face but not be able to cook a well-turned prime rib -
    or explode violently and tear off their arms, for that matter. They
    are effectively Australopithicenes and we need to bring them up to at
    least Victorian standards so they don't beat the computer with a
    stick to kill the demons inside.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm an optimist and see this all going quite
    well, all in all, it's just a very large task to get all 6.5 (and
    growing!) billion folks up to speed. Good news is that much of the
    stuff they will learn through trial and tremendously messy error
    (much like children). Our jobs inasmuch as we find ourselves in
    oppotunities to educate is to get them through school with most of
    their body parts and some idea how to behave, and why.

    We can't even educate me enough to setup my mail client so Paul will
    post my comments to this list (or whatever it is I'm doing wrong,
    maybe blotting my copybook...:~D), so we certainly have work to do...

    > > Lucy: "You can't subtract five from three!"
    >
    > > Linus: "You can if you're stupid!"
    >
    >I hadn't heard that exchange before. That's a good one :)

    I got a Peanuts book when I was four for Christmas with that cartoon
    in it. A few months later my dad taught me about negative numbers,
    and the fact that something so obviously impossible could turn out to
    be so completely wrong so quickly has always stuck with me. All
    sorts of sh*t is possible if you just do it...

    -woof!

    -chris

    "Sacred cows make the best hamburger. "

    -Mark Twain

    Chris Blask
    chris@blask.org
    http://blaskworks.blogspot.com

    +1 416 358 9885

    _______________________________________________
    firewall-wizards mailing list
    firewall-wizards@honor.icsalabs.com
    http://honor.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards

  • Next message: Brian Loe: "RE: [fw-wiz] The home user problem returns"
    • Quantcast