Re: [fw-wiz] Hopefully not too OT

From: Marcus J. Ranum (
Date: 05/03/05

  • Next message: Jason Gomes: "Re: [fw-wiz] PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration"
    To: Barney Wolff <>
    Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 21:10:56 -0400

    Barney Wolff wrote:
    >It all depends on whose requirements are being met.


    In order to talk meaningfully about requirements, we need to
    have informed consumers. We don't. So it's pointless.

    How many end customers of computer systems do you know
    who could reason effectively about the security properties of
    a system vis-a-vis their mission? I think, in my career, I have
    met a few dozen - and almost always they're getting hammered
    from above and below by co-workers who don't.

    I stand by my earlier comment; we're doing it all wrong and
    to actually _solve_ these problems we're going to either need
    to do something revolutionary or we're going to wind up reinventing
    trusted systems very slowly and painfully. It's not the most
    efficient way to go about it, especially since the roadmap was
    laid out in the early 80s - but computer "science" is the art of
    ignoring the past while leaping blindly toward a speculative


    PS - ruthless marketing plug! Framed prints of computer security
    posters now available from

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