Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry
From: gmx (carpathin.wolf_at_gmx.net)
To: ArkanoiD <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:37:29 +0100
i think, dividing the world into 'good' and 'bad' is an american
model... what is good ? What is bad ? Is good what conforms to our law
or justice ?If yes, it is good when morders are freed because of
missed proves ?
Is it good or bad if an 'hacker' breaks into a secret project, and
gets information eg. about HI-Virus, that its not natural, its a weapon
? Is that really 'bad' ? To say the truth ?
So what is 'good' and 'bad' , we are using those terms, without
thinking what they define...
I could count more examples, but its not the right place for taht, i
just wanted to point on some definitions.
Thanks for your patience.
Wednesday, November 10, 2004, 5:41:02 PM, you wrote:
<==============Original message text===============
A> I *WAS* a "bad guy" for a long time. But they did never catch me, so my
A> criminal record is clean ;-)
A> I'd even say "bad" and "good" are just players in the game. And it would be
A> unwise to blame black hats for lack of ethics: some of them follow their ethics,
A> some do not. Just like white hats.
A> There is only one problem with hiring ex-hackers as security professionals:
A> most of them have no clue in creating reasonable treat models, must of them are
A> just good in finding *vulnerabilities* and fixing those, but creating secure design
A> may be beyond their abilities.
A> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:29:38PM -0400, Mike Smith wrote:
>> The man committed crimes, was caught and convicted, and served the time awarded
>> by various governments. From what I read, he has been clean for a quarter of a
>> century. Indeed, he has helped police authorities fight criminal activities
>> such as he once engaged in.
>> I guess the issue is how long does it take before one accepts that a convicted
>> person has truly reformed? If the answer is "forever," then what is the point
>> in ever letting him out of jail? Can criminals never acknowledge the error of
>> their ways and return to civilized society? Can we not learn anything from
>> Here in Canada, for instance, a convicted person must serve his full sentence
>> and remain "of good conduct" for three to five years (depending on the offence)
>> afterwards, and then he can apply for a pardon, which sets aside his criminal
>> record (but does not destroy it; by the way, some offences, notably violent
>> ones, are not pardonable). The thinking is that the person has "paid his debt
>> to society" and is entitled to a relatively unfettered attempt to contribute
>> once again.
>> This is _not_ to suggest that I approve of hiring self-proclaimed ex-hackers as
>> security professionals. By and large, they have not "paid their debts." There
>> is no evidence or behaviour that would lead you to conclude they have reformed
>> their ways.
>> Disclosure: I'm planning on attending the CSI conference (if upper management
>> approves the travel request).
>> --- Paul D. Robertson wrote:
>> > This year's CSI conference features the self-advancing "Catch me if you
>> > can" guy, Frank Abagnale as a keynote speaker.
>> > Because of this, one of my co-workers, Bill Murray, has withdrawn from
>> > speaking, as has Howard Schmidt with the "people who commit felonies
>> > shouldn't profit from the results of their nefarious deeds, let
>> > alone be sponsored by the security industry" train of thought.
>> > Bill's done the same before with a different organization advancing Kevin
>> > Mitnick in the past. Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are
>> > still people in this world who are willing to take the moral high ground,
>> > and hold it.
>> > <snip>
>> Mike Smith
>> "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
>> H.G. Wells - The Outline of History
>> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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<===========End of original message text===========
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