Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry
From: ArkanoiD (ark_at_eltex.net)
To: Mike Smith <email@example.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:41:02 +0300
I *WAS* a "bad guy" for a long time. But they did never catch me, so my
criminal record is clean ;-)
I'd even say "bad" and "good" are just players in the game. And it would be
unwise to blame black hats for lack of ethics: some of them follow their ethics,
some do not. Just like white hats.
There is only one problem with hiring ex-hackers as security professionals:
most of them have no clue in creating reasonable treat models, must of them are
just good in finding *vulnerabilities* and fixing those, but creating secure design
may be beyond their abilities.
On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:29:38PM -0400, Mike Smith wrote:
> The man committed crimes, was caught and convicted, and served the time awarded
> by various governments. From what I read, he has been clean for a quarter of a
> century. Indeed, he has helped police authorities fight criminal activities
> such as he once engaged in.
> I guess the issue is how long does it take before one accepts that a convicted
> person has truly reformed? If the answer is "forever," then what is the point
> in ever letting him out of jail? Can criminals never acknowledge the error of
> their ways and return to civilized society? Can we not learn anything from
> Here in Canada, for instance, a convicted person must serve his full sentence
> and remain "of good conduct" for three to five years (depending on the offence)
> afterwards, and then he can apply for a pardon, which sets aside his criminal
> record (but does not destroy it; by the way, some offences, notably violent
> ones, are not pardonable). The thinking is that the person has "paid his debt
> to society" and is entitled to a relatively unfettered attempt to contribute
> once again.
> This is _not_ to suggest that I approve of hiring self-proclaimed ex-hackers as
> security professionals. By and large, they have not "paid their debts." There
> is no evidence or behaviour that would lead you to conclude they have reformed
> their ways.
> Disclosure: I'm planning on attending the CSI conference (if upper management
> approves the travel request).
> --- Paul D. Robertson wrote:
> > This year's CSI conference features the self-advancing "Catch me if you
> > can" guy, Frank Abagnale as a keynote speaker.
> > Because of this, one of my co-workers, Bill Murray, has withdrawn from
> > speaking, as has Howard Schmidt with the "people who commit felonies
> > shouldn't profit from the results of their nefarious deeds, let
> > alone be sponsored by the security industry" train of thought.
> > Bill's done the same before with a different organization advancing Kevin
> > Mitnick in the past. Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are
> > still people in this world who are willing to take the moral high ground,
> > and hold it.
> > <snip>
> Mike Smith
> "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
> H.G. Wells - The Outline of History
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