Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry

From: ArkanoiD (ark_at_eltex.net)
Date: 11/10/04

  • Next message: ArkanoiD: "Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry" 
    To: Mike Smith <jmikesmith@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:41:02 +0300

    I *WAS* a "bad guy" for a long time. But they did never catch me, so my
    criminal record is clean ;-)

    I'd even say "bad" and "good" are just players in the game. And it would be
    unwise to blame black hats for lack of ethics: some of them follow their ethics,
    some do not. Just like white hats.

    There is only one problem with hiring ex-hackers as security professionals:
    most of them have no clue in creating reasonable treat models, must of them are
    just good in finding *vulnerabilities* and fixing those, but creating secure design
    may be beyond their abilities.

    On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:29:38PM -0400, Mike Smith wrote:
    > <de-lurk>
    > The man committed crimes, was caught and convicted, and served the time awarded
    > by various governments. From what I read, he has been clean for a quarter of a
    > century. Indeed, he has helped police authorities fight criminal activities
    > such as he once engaged in.
    >
    > I guess the issue is how long does it take before one accepts that a convicted
    > person has truly reformed? If the answer is "forever," then what is the point
    > in ever letting him out of jail? Can criminals never acknowledge the error of
    > their ways and return to civilized society? Can we not learn anything from
    > them?
    >
    > Here in Canada, for instance, a convicted person must serve his full sentence
    > and remain "of good conduct" for three to five years (depending on the offence)
    > afterwards, and then he can apply for a pardon, which sets aside his criminal
    > record (but does not destroy it; by the way, some offences, notably violent
    > ones, are not pardonable). The thinking is that the person has "paid his debt
    > to society" and is entitled to a relatively unfettered attempt to contribute
    > once again.
    >
    > This is _not_ to suggest that I approve of hiring self-proclaimed ex-hackers as
    > security professionals. By and large, they have not "paid their debts." There
    > is no evidence or behaviour that would lead you to conclude they have reformed
    > their ways.
    >
    > Disclosure: I'm planning on attending the CSI conference (if upper management
    > approves the travel request).
    >
    > <lurk>
    >
    > --- Paul D. Robertson wrote:
    > >
    > > This year's CSI conference features the self-advancing "Catch me if you
    > > can" guy, Frank Abagnale as a keynote speaker.
    > >
    > > Because of this, one of my co-workers, Bill Murray, has withdrawn from
    > > speaking, as has Howard Schmidt with the "people who commit felonies
    > > shouldn't profit from the results of their nefarious deeds, let
    > > alone be sponsored by the security industry" train of thought[1].
    > >
    > > Bill's done the same before with a different organization advancing Kevin
    > > Mitnick in the past. Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are
    > > still people in this world who are willing to take the moral high ground,
    > > and hold it.
    > >
    > > <snip>
    >
    > =====
    > Mike Smith
    >
    > "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
    > H.G. Wells - The Outline of History
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
    > _______________________________________________
    > firewall-wizards mailing list
    > firewall-wizards@honor.icsalabs.com
    > http://honor.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards
    >
    >
    > email protected and scanned by AdvascanTM - keeping email useful - www.advascan.com
    >
    > == TEST.ELTEX.NET passed ==

    _______________________________________________
    firewall-wizards mailing list
    firewall-wizards@honor.icsalabs.com
    http://honor.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards

  • Next message: ArkanoiD: "Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry"

    Relevant Pages

    • Re[2]: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry
      ... A> criminal record is clean;-) ... A> unwise to blame black hats for lack of ethics: some of them follow their ethics, ... Can criminals never acknowledge the error of ...
      (Firewall-Wizards)
    • Re: otp: Tookie Williams ...and a post about me...OF COURSE
      ... Prison isnt about rehabilitation or deterrance. ... criminal record wouldnt be a stigma and prevent you from getting a job ... Most career criminals dont know how to function ... and it true that only God can judge him. ...
      (rec.music.hip-hop)
    • Re: Im f*cking gutted...
      ... What do you do with habitual criminals? ... It would have been interesting to see the dead ... Had he a criminal record? ... Was he a burglar? ...
      (soc.culture.irish)
    • Re: Tip of the iceberg?
      ... >> Police forces confess 944 officers have a criminal record ... > every day it was in power, that's not really a shock. ... Surely the police should set standards of law abidance and not be ... criminals themselves? ...
      (uk.legal)
    • Re: Question Time: Those who supporting the BNP by "opposing it"
      ... has a criminal record for incitement to racial hatred, ... criminal record for burglary which he claims he's proud of because it ... Any other ex criminals that have been on Question Time? ...
      (uk.media.tv.misc)