RE: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality, and mental retardation

From: Ames, Neil (NAmes_at_anteon.com)
Date: 10/29/04

  • Next message: Scott Stursa: "Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality, and mental retardation"
    To: "J. Oquendo" <sil@politrix.org>, <mjr@ranum.com>, <firewall-wizards@honor.icsalabs.com>
    Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:02:47 -0400
    
    

    Mr. Oquendo,
        I am concerned by your argument that a criminal should be able to profit from their crime instead of being forced to find another way to make a living. Mr. Mitnik could make a living selling cars, for example. I also think that you are off when describing Mr. Ranum as a one-trick pony. I suspect that he would have been quite successful in other businesses (though I don't envision him selling cars--maybe raising trick ponies).
        Your point about prison stats evades me, as I see a logical conclusion being that nobody should serve time in prison. (I kind of agree with that, but with the presumption that no crime is committed.) Also, is the point that the criminal has imposed a lifetime of pain on other people beyond your comprehension? Where is ethics and morality when you make these arguments?
        Oh, and what does the affliction of mental retardation have to do with ethics, morality, and this thread? It seems insensitive toward others. You also, by the way, seem *awfully* sensitive on the subject of rehabilitation of criminals. (When's your next speaking engagement?)
     
     
    Thank you,
     
    Fritz
     

    ________________________________

    From: firewall-wizards-admin@honor.icsalabs.com on behalf of J. Oquendo
    Sent: Fri 10/29/2004 2:26 PM
    To: mjr@ranum.com; firewall-wizards@honor.icsalabs.com
    Subject: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality, and mental retardation

    > How? By paying clowns with criminal records $15,000/keynote to gloat
    > about how clever they are? How exactly is that going to convince today's
    > script kiddie that being 3l33t doesn't pay?

    > mjr.

    You're quite right Mr. Ranum, I say sentence everyone for the rest of
    their lives to rot in a prison at your taxpayer expense. Why not there is
    no such thing as reform. A lifetime sentence to walk in the park. Tennis,
    volleyball, basketball, baseball, lifting weights, listening to music,
    watching weekly videos, and sneaking of the compound when the guards
    aren't looking, all at your expense.

    Punish EVERYONE to a lifetime sentence. There is no reform for anyone
    who's committed a crime, or who has been charged with one in society even
    when found innocent. Their lives are shattered forever without apologies
    or double takes. All that is remembered was the negativity. You seem to
    forget without a criminally malicious "hacker" you would have no career,
    nor business for that matter. While I respect your work from the
    background to the utmost extreme, I find your view humorous and
    disturbing. Did you ever consider that most of the black/greyhat community
    keeps the security world on its toes with discoveries that put food on
    your table?

    Has it occurred to you that via someone's dabbling with the unthinkable
    they've perhaps prevented something even more unthinkable? Money isn't
    everything in this world. There are a lot of people who have paid their
    dues in society whether you realize it or not, so your view of
    sentencing someone to a lifetime of punishment is flawed, and ridiculous.
    Have you not seen recent stats? You know the one that shows 1 in every 37
    Americans has at some point gone through the "machines" of justice. Or did
    that elude you in your quest to punish people forever?

    Why not just make the US one big prison system you would be a nice
    Warden. (http://www.bop.gov/hrmpg/hrmcurrent.html)

    Stats on those 1 and 37 anyone?
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=2&u=/ap/20030817/ap_on_re_us/prison_experience_1

    =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
    J. Oquendo
    GPG Key ID 0x51F9D78D
    Fingerprint 2A48 BA18 1851 4C99

    CA22 0619 DB63 F2F7 51F9 D78D
    http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x51F9D78D

    sil @ politrix . org http://www.politrix.org
    sil @ infiltrated . net http://www.infiltrated.net

    "How can we account for our present situation unless we
    believe that men high in this government are concerting
    to deliver us to disaster?" Joseph McCarthy "America's
    Retreat from Victory"
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