RE: [fw-wiz] Sources for Extranet Designs?

From: Chris Blask (
Date: 02/24/04

  • Next message: Don Parker: "RE: [fw-wiz] Sources for Extranet Designs?"
    To: Don Parker <>
    Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 05:38:54 -0800 (PST)

    Quoting Don Parker <>:
    > Yes indeed IPS is an excellent technology that is slowly maturing. There is
    still nothing wrong with the IDS though. Where the problem resides though is
    in the human interface to it. A distinct lack of knowledge, and sometimes
    education if the main problem when it comes to these technologies. I am
    however beating a dead horse vis a vis this in this mailing list. Heh, one of
    the main gripes I hear is the huge amount of data to cull through that is
    generated by an IPS/IDS. Were they up to speed on how to sift that data using
    bpf filters/bit masking there would not be a problem :-)

    The human interface is the entire problem, and if you set the level of
    expertise found in the human at the lowest point found on the distribution
    chart of network operators you get a view of the shape of the solution...

    IPS is fine, but it seems to me to simply be an evolution of the firewall as
    opposed to anything particularly new. The two questions are:

    o Do network owners want to have yet another shell of perimeter security (and
    do they want it from another new vendor with it's own logistic infrastructure)?
    o If you made IPS devices, it would be good so soak up info from all of the
    other vendors. But if you compete with those other vendors, why would they
    help you do it better?

    IDS is all goodness, but what to do with the output?


    > Cheers!
    > Don
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Don Parker, GCIA
    > Intrusion Detection Specialist
    > Rigel Kent Security & Advisory Services Inc
    > ph :613.249.8340
    > fax:613.249.8319
    > --------------------------------------------
    > On Feb 23, "Marcus J. Ranum" <> wrote:
    > Wes Noonan wrote:
    > >IPS would be a no brainer for me in this scenario.
    > I. Hate. To. Admit. It. But. You. May. Be Right.
    > IPS hype aside, and ignoring what the Gartner idiots think,
    > there's a conceptual value to the IPS concept. Basically, a
    > firewall implements one of 2 policies:
    > - Permit
    > - Deny
    > IPS (i.e.: a signature-based firewall) adds a third option to the
    > policy matrix:
    > - Permit
    > - Deny
    > - Permit it as long as it is not obviously abusive (e.g.:
    > signature
    > hasn't fired)
    > That's actually kind of cool. It means you can set up a connection
    > for your business partner and let the traffic (for the minimum subset
    > of
    > services needed, of course!) go through. Then if the business
    > partners generate traffic that is abusive or appears abusive you
    > have useful information that you can further use to diagnose what
    > they are doing. "Hey, mister outsourcer, why are you Nmapping
    > my network?"
    > Of course since IPS is signature-based you're going to have the
    > same kind of issues with false positives as you have with an IDS.
    > But, since your business partners (in theory) should be communicating
    > with you in a pretty plain vanilla manner, it should work OK.
    > mjr.
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    Chris Blask
    Vice President, Business Development
    Protego Networks Inc.

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